texashill Loc: Texas Hill Country

Like I stated previously, I am not a professional photographer but I am a professional house presenter. This property is a Fannie Mae foreclosure that was lived in HARD :-) It has holes, it has stains, it needs repair. An Investor will purchase and I want him to see. A tripod in a half bath will miss the toilet - that is true - and will literally miss everything else. Buyers are more interested in what is offered for purchase than "correct vertical perspective". I come here looking for advice on how to improve image quality but, trust me, I know what is best to put in the frame.

mallen1330 Loc: Chicago western suburbs

Okay. I'll keep my mouth shut -- you obviously do not want any further suggestions.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

The two of you are talking at each other, not to each other.

texashill is a real estate salesmen with a specific goal and wanted tips on getting better pictures, for his needs. He knows what he needs and wants, he just wants info on how to improve without becoming a master photographer.

mallen1330 is giving information for optimizing the photos as if the photos are the end product.


Not all uses of photos need to be the absolute best in all ways. Exp texashill doesn't need all the verticals etc to be perfect, he needs the photos to show what is there in a fairly high IQ.

I understand that, long ago I was on a field school in geography and anthropology. I was the camera nut in the group. I got assigned to read the book on field photography and give a one day class on using photography in the field. The photos did not need to be great photographic art. They needed to be exposed properly and sharp to show what was there. A record for study by academics. That is what I taught them. Good exposure and focus (manual 35 mm cameras in the early 1970s), include the items of interest. I never even mentioned composition etc. Wasn't needed.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

You're getting the standard answers, because most realtors do want correct perspectives. They want HDR photos so viewers see maximum shadow detail, staged houses where everything looks like the American Dream, etc.

Your work on this foreclosure is a bit different from the norm!

As a recent buyer, I have to say it was the nicer-looking homes on web sites like Zillow and Trulia that attracted us. What turned us off was visiting homes with visible, smelly mold, cracked foundations, leaky roofs, pet-stained carpet, overgrown trees, 1960s paneling and appliances, wallpaper from 1976, locations next to slob neighbors, etc.

When we sold our home, we listened to our realtor and fixed the most obvious issues (replaced carpet, replaced leaky windows, trimmed trees, fixed squeaky doors, and made sure all the appliances were clean and working properly).

Then we decluttered, packing up a third of our stuff and putting it in storage. Finally, we had the place professionally cleaned and staged for photography. It was worth it to sell the place quickly — It paid off by getting us TWO real offers on the afternoon we first put it on the market. It sold to the higher bidder.

Our realtor (Leigh Brown of ReMax in Charlotte) was selling a home every 1.8 days, on average, in a range from just under $100K to over $2M. Her photographers had it down to a fine formula... They made sure Leigh's web sites looked better than almost all the other agents' in the area!

MtnMan Loc: ID

I'd order your candidate factors as:
1. Skill
2. Camera sensor
3. Lens

Some here will claim the lens more important than the camera sensor. I believe they are passing on an urban legend that was true with film but not true with digital cameras. You can check image quality ratings across cameras and lenses on DXOMark. You'll find the camera makes more difference than the lens.

That said the lens can make a significant difference where tack sharp detail matters. And it isn't true that you always get better image quality by paying more. Inexpensive prime lenses like the nifty fifty can be sharper than much more expensive zoom lenses.

Another holdover from the past is that zoom lenses suck for image quality. While that too used to be true modern methods make zoom lenses that produce very high quality images. As a rule the lower the overall zoom range the better the image.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

If you use either correctly, you can get good results from either. Panasonic makes a Lumix DMC-LX100 four/thirds sensor camera with a fixed Leica f/1.7-2.8, 3:1 ratio zoom lens on it (24-75mm full frame equivalent). If you use it within its limits, results are excellent for your type of work, although the lens isn't quite as wide as some might want for real estate.

http://www.dpreview.com/products/panasonic/compacts/panasonic_dmclx100

What interchangeable lens cameras give you is CHOICE of optics. Quality is always most dependent on users' skills, but with interchangeable lenses, you can more precisely fit the lens specifications to the job specifications.

When the destination is low-res, highly compressed JPEG web display on real estate sites, I don't think you're going to notice all that much difference between camera formats. You can get to the end result quite nicely from almost any format on the market, provided you know what to do with it.

canon Lee

Having just purchased a new condo, I can state unequivocally, that high quality photos were very necessary. The high quality photos told me that the Realtor was one that paid attention to details & stood out. As a photographer, I can say that it is all about the lens not so much about the sensor, for your needs. I suggest 24mm is a good lens focal length. ( Some lenses also allow perspective correction in camera. These lenses are known as tilt/shift lenses, but very expensive). A lens that is called "a fast lens", means it can let more light onto the sensor. A F1.8 or 2.8 Aperture opening will let more light in. Most of the photos I viewed were dark and lack detail, so its important to let as much light in as possible. Another suggestion is to bring lights with you. There is a large range of lighting equipment. The more light the better the IQ! Use a tripod as well since shaking or movements will impair the image.
I know that it is a lot of work to set up the shots, but consider your commission. ( half measures avail nothing).

mallen1330 Loc: Chicago western suburbs

I am a real estate broker as well as a photographer working with many of the top RE agents in our area (Chicago suburbs). Selling homes or anything else requires putting the BEST images out for potential buyers to review (That's basic marketing). Today's RE buyers are sophisticated and selective. Listings with bad photos get passed over. Listings with good photos attract showing appointments. If texashill only wants to document the flaws in his listing for investors, he has succeeded. IMHO, IQ is more than just focus, DOF, dynamic range, clarity, color balance, etc. Important IQ factors include the good composition of an artist's eye, and lens distortion correction to avoid the queasy reaction viewers get from crooked, distorted images.

Here's some more documentation: http://badmlsphotos.com

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

An interchangeble lens camera can offer a lot more flexibility matching the lens to the job. For example, shooting architecture often can be better done with a tilt/shift or PC (perspective correction) lens that insures vertical lines stay vertical and prevents "keystoning" effect. There are no point-n-shoots what-so-ever with tilt/shift/PC capabilities. Canon offers four different Tilt/Shift lenses (17mm, 24mm, 45mm and 90mm). Nikon offers several, too. Schneider makes several to fit Canon, Nikon and maybe some other brands. Medium and large format have similar options, and possibly even more correction capabilities (but are far, far more expensive).

Most P&S cameras have pretty limited wide angle capabilities, too. Almost none go much wider than equivalent of 24mm on a full frame camera, many not even that wide. This can be a problem trying to shoot in small spaces such as bathrooms. In contrast, a full frame DSLRs can be fitted with 16mm wide, 14mm, or even 12 or 11mm wide lenses (there are lenses that give comparably wide angle of view on APS-C DSLRs, too). With wide angles, a one or two millimeter difference can be pretty apparent, four or five millimeters may be quite dramatic (if we were comparing telephotos instead, these small changes are much less significant).

There's also lens correction... Which is typically much better done with high-end lenses for APS-C and full frame, than it is with the multi-purpose zooms on P&S cameras. For example, wide angle lenses that aren't well corrected can have some "fisheye" effect, bending lines that should be straight. Zoom lenses might have "barrel" distortion at one extreme and "pincushion" at the other. Some less-well corrected lenses have more complex "mustache" distortion in the middle of the image. Vignetting can occur (darkening the corners of the image), not to mention chromatic aberrations and various types of flare. The more "miniature" the camera and lens, the harder a lot of these are to correct particularly well.

General image quality is the other big factor.... A four/thirds sensor is actually a lot bigger than most point-n-shoot camera sensors... but at about 13x17mm it's a lot smaller than APS-C (15x22mm or 16x23mm depending upon brand) or so-called full frame (24x36mm). The smaller the sensor, the more crowded the pixel sites and the smaller each of those sites must be. More sensor "real estate" and less crowding makes for cooler sensor operation and less cross-talk errors between the individual photo sites, both of which make for less image noise and more usable high ISOs. Larger pixel sites are better at gathering light, so capture more fine detail.

Many interchangeable lens cameras have articulated screens too, that can be used in much the same way as your point-n-shoot's. But most also have an optical viewfinder, which can be advantageous for some things. Out in bright sunlight, for example, a screen such as your camera uses can be very difficult to see and an optical viewfinder is much better. A few DSLRs now have an electronic viewfinder, where rather than directly viewing things optically, you're essentially seeing a playback of the camera's viewpoint on a small screen inside the pentaprism. This can offer a brighter view in very low light conditions.

Besides the lenses themselves, there often also may be many other useful accessories available for DSLRs, that might be helpful and just aren't offered for point-n-shoots.

But, hey, for your purposes (MLS images are pretty small), a point-n-shoot might make more sense and be all you ever need. Using a higher end P&S model with a larger four-thirds sensor you're already well ahead of what's found in many of those types of cameras.

But if you are doing virtual tours on websites and printing brochures for high end properties or running ads for them in magazines, better quality images that are possible with APS-C DSLRs, full frame or even larger might be needed. However, if you only need these occasionally, it probably doesn't make sense to invest a lot in gear for the purposes, you might just hire a pro to shoot it for you.



Actually, that's not true any more. A friend of mine is one of the foremost architectural photographers in the U.S. He's hired to photograph extremely high end homes and commercial properties all over the country.

In the past he worked pretty exclusively with large format sheet film cameras, which offer a whole lot more in the way of perspective controls than either medium format or 35mm roll film cameras do.

But he's been shooting digital pretty exclusively now for around 7 or 8 years. He was reluctant to do so at first, but after learning some post-processing techniques that made his life a whole lot easier, pretty much retired the film cameras. Interior lighting is so much easier now thanks to custom white balances... Interior shots that need to incorporate windows and scenery outside are easily handled with a couple digital captures that are later combined... It's no longer necessary to wait out boring plain or ugly skies, since it's easy to Photoshop in something more attractive, from one's own archive of "stock" skies... And more!

His biggest problem is that, like so many other specializations, architectural photography has been beaten to death by rank amateurs who offer their services at starvation prices. It's hard to be a $1500 to $10,000 a job pro when some pimply faced kid with a Rebel, kit lens, no education and little experience can be hired to take almost as good shots for $125!

texashill Loc: Texas Hill Country

You got it; thanks. A small half bath is an easy call, either don't photograph or shoot from overhead and live with the results. A Buyer would like to know what the bathroom looks like so I choose to include the photo. But other rooms are not such an easy call and many may agree with mallen1330 on how best to handle it.

The photo to the left is from a property that I marketed in early 2013. This was with my old camera Samsung TL500, 1/1.7 sensor size, 24 mm. MLS had a 640 x 480 size restriction at that time. We are evaluating composition, not image quality. The photo to the right was when the property returned to market last June, 1280 x 960 now allowed, and marketed by a big firm. This photo is obviously about tripod level and is much wider than 24mm. It does a nice job of showing the window views of adjoining breakfast room and living room, has better vertical perspective, but my opinion, does not very well show the granite countertop and the nice wooden cabinetry. It may be a better composition of the overall house but not such a good capture of the kitchen, my opinion.

Perhaps there is a place for both. Perhaps that is the answer to my question :-) what is gained? answer: choice.

That's it! Thanks!

wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado

Actually, my wife is a travel agent and goes on what are called FAM trips (hotel inspections and familiarization). Some times spouses are allowed to come along. This means that you will be in a gruop of about 16 to 30 people, mostly agents, all examining the various rooms the property offers. Unless one wants to have a photograph for the website with lots of people in it, one has to wait until the agents are leaving the room to go to the next room. Depending on how demanding the hotel repesentive is and how many rooms are on the schedule, one will get from 1 to 5 minutes to shoot all important aspects of the room. There is no more time available. I feel good if I can produce 50% to 60% acceptable good shots. The usual percentages are 25% to 40% due to many of the rooms are too long and dark for the flash to be as effective as I would like. There are no retakes; one must get it the first time or be satisfied with nothing at all. At you might suspect, it is not conducive to great photography.

CraigFair Loc: Santa Maria, CA.

""How much of the difference is because the professional uses a better quality lens, or because they use a larger sensor, or perhaps skill""?
All 4 my friend, the Camera, the Lens, the shooters Knowledge and Skill

dixiebeachboy

From what you said why not buy the body, lens that gives you the to do the job that you know how to do. Also the difference between a professional photographer and an amateur photographer is one gets paid for it the other one does not! I know that I have seen amateurs that were better than a lot of professionals and even an ordinary horse is outstanding in his own fee

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

More is better. When we were shopping for a house, 18 months ago, the average was 16 photos per listing. Ours had almost 30... If there's an important feature, cover it from several angles and perspectives. Let 'em drool a bit!

texashill Loc: Texas Hill Country

Do both! I think that is the answer :-)