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So... What is so great about a square format vs a FF (or anything else for that matter)???
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Dec 5, 2015 11:41:01   #
Kuzano
 
Square was popular in the fashion industry so as to eliminate portrait vs landscape in framing decisions.

In fact, also popular in medium format was 6X7 as a direct aspect ratio for Magazine Pages.

Press changed down from 4X5 Press Camera's, in the 60's to the 6X9 centimeter (2x3 inch) medium format. 6X9 is noted as being 2:3 aspect ratio on 35mm film, or full frame sensors.

6X9 had the difficulty that most film processors did not use equipment that allowed enlargement or printing of the 6X9CM files size (as a negative size primarily), while they all were equipped for Square, and 6X7, along with the "miniature frame" 35mm film.

Frames for prints also followed some of these same guidelines.

Yes, when film was split and put into canisters or rolls for 35mm (24mm x 35mm) it was known as the "miniature film frame size"). Interesting that it is now called Full Frame in digital. What a YUKK :-D :-D :-D

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Dec 5, 2015 12:03:10   #
Mark7829 Loc: Calfornia
 
Allen McDonald wrote:
I actually see quite a bit of 1:1 prints in the arty world. All of Vivian Maier prints are being printed 1:1. She used the 1:1 format with her Rollei. Admittedly, her prints are being made posthumously so perhaps they are keeping them full frame since they don't know how she would have cropped them.

As for the original question, my two cents would be that any advantage is primarily in the shear size of a 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 negative and not necessarily the equal ratio. Although one could argue that perhaps a 1:1 ratio would give equal amount of distortion/softness on all edges of the frame which some might find advantageous.

I actually crop quite a few of my shots 1:1 from my 3:2 sensor. Purely an aesthetic choice though. No right answer there.
I actually see quite a bit of 1:1 prints in the ar... (show quote)


Vivian Maier shot portraits, no landscape photography or sports, wildlife. It really has to do with the subject matter rather than technique.

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Dec 5, 2015 12:09:45   #
DJO
 
SharpShooter wrote:
Square is NOT better. Only because it was MF. If it had been any bigger as in 3:2, 5:4 etc the camera and lenses would have been huge and hugely expensive.
Ever seen a square framed pic, neither have I. All have been cropped because 1:1 is just not a flattering format!!! ;-)
SS


1:1 is in no way unflattering, it's just different. When I shoot square, I shoot square. Even drugstores sell square picture frames.

You shouldn't criticize things you don't understand.

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Dec 5, 2015 12:27:33   #
jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
 
DJO wrote:
1:1 is in no way unflattering, it's just different. When I shoot square, I shoot square. Even drugstores sell square picture frames.

You shouldn't criticize things you don't understand.



:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Dec 5, 2015 12:52:44   #
Dick Z. Loc: Downers Grove IL
 
Rongnongno wrote:
1:1 is indeed an unflattering format but these are cropped to fit, right?

But you did not answer the question, what is the advantage of a square format?


The only advantage I can see is a horizontal or vertical could be taken without tilting the camera. Really, when you take a vertical or horizontal shot there is absolutely no cropping, as you see the full frame either way.

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Dec 5, 2015 13:01:40   #
John_F Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 
It has been debated in many articles, books and treatices that the Golden Rectange is the shape of natural beauty. I won't go into the details but suffice it to say I agree, the arguments convince. The Golden Rectangle has side such their ratio 1.681.... : 1 , that is - (1 + square root of 5 )/2 This number comes from one of Euclid's propositions. Now 3 by 2 is 1.5:1 or almost the Divine Ratio of which the Golden Rectangle is constructed. The ratio 3:2 is also the 36 mm by 24 mm frame size of 35 mm film fame which is held to be the definition of FF. No sensor can be made to Golden Rectangle dimensions because the square root of 5 guarantees the fraction has no end digit. But a sensor that comes close could be made, but I don't think any camera company would go out on that limb.

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Dec 5, 2015 13:02:47   #
stan0301 Loc: Colorado
 
For many years I used the Rollie 2 1/4 SLRs (all the lenses from 30mm to 500mm) the thing is "the square image" is a little unusual and it will crop either way--about ten years ago I put them into two large boxes and practally gave them to Adorama--when I look at the about 72mb images there is a lot of junk there--if Adorama offered to swap me back I would have to turn them down
Stan

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Dec 5, 2015 13:34:56   #
Ranjan Loc: Currently Cyber-Nation!
 
Rongnongno wrote:
The horizontal format came from the movies as they tried to imitate the human vision that is effectively made out of two roundish shapes overlapping each other, out of which a rectangle was pulled.

'It is natural' they say.


Yes but the natural image is stereoscopic and aided by the organic computer that has the ability to fluidly zoom into the segment of interest while ignoring the rest of the image in the frame. The frame becomes secondary, unless one deliberately pays attention to it, in natural viewing.

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Dec 5, 2015 15:17:38   #
creativ simon Loc: Coulsdon, South London
 
SharpShooter wrote:
Square is NOT better. Only because it was MF. If it had been any bigger as in 3:2, 5:4 etc the camera and lenses would have been huge and hugely expensive.
Ever seen a square framed pic, neither have I. All have been cropped because 1:1 is just not a flattering format!!! ;-)
SS


I frame many of my works square

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Dec 5, 2015 15:42:26   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
Ranjan wrote:
Yes but the natural image is stereoscopic and aided by the organic computer that has the ability to fluidly zoom into the segment of interest while ignoring the rest of the image in the frame. The frame becomes secondary, unless one deliberately pays attention to it, in natural viewing.

Not only but we see 3D because of the stereoscopic vision (also why we become cross eyed when we look at something too close ~ and get ghosts when looking through a set of fingers by example)

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Dec 5, 2015 16:20:49   #
Morry Loc: Palm Springs, CA
 
I also used Hasselblad for wedding and portrature work. Another advantage not mentioned is if one's main product sold are wedding albums -- I found square easier albums to put together and also to order pages. I used only 5x5, 8x8, 10x10 inch size pages ordered from Artleather. My customers seemed to love it. Never a complaint because of square photos in 17 years of doing weddings.
Another oblique reason for using Hasselblad instead of using anything else. A number of people seemed to be of the opinion that a Hasselblad user's work was better just by virtue of using Hasselblad. I never believed that -- but continued to use Hasselblad because of the high quality and ease of use. It simply -- I thought was good for business. I retired from wedding photography and portraits in 1994. Obviously things have changed quite a bit since those years.
Regarding some opinions as to which is more artistic. I always felt that my format choice depended on the composition of the subject matter. Some walls that I have hung large framed photographs just called out for square (in my mind). With square negatives I had that easy "choice".

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Dec 5, 2015 17:55:36   #
twowindsbear
 
boberic wrote:
Maybe so but I know how to convert Centimeters to inches and that is what my response was about. The OP said that his Hasselblad was 500cm that converts to 20 inches. He mistakenly said that the Hasselblad 500cm was 500 centimeters square. A meter is 1000 cm about 39 inches. So 1/2 meter is about 20 inches. I may not know much about the Hasselbad but I learned how to convert cm to inches in High School. One more thing. I handled a friends 500c a long time ago.And as I recall it fit in my hands. A 500cm size camera would not
Maybe so but I know how to convert Centimeters to ... (show quote)


And you don't fave a very firm grasp of the metric system, either. You're off by a factor of 10.

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Dec 5, 2015 18:43:54   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
twowindsbear wrote:
.../... garbage .../...

Enough already. boberic recognized he made a mistake as we all do.

You want to lynch him for it? :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:

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Dec 5, 2015 18:46:03   #
Indiana Loc: Huntington, Indiana
 
SharpShooter wrote:
Square is NOT better. Only because it was MF. If it had been any bigger as in 3:2, 5:4 etc the camera and lenses would have been huge and hugely expensive.
Ever seen a square framed pic, neither have I. All have been cropped because 1:1 is just not a flattering format!!! ;-)
SS


The rectangle is the dominate shape for the human eye. That is why magazines, newspapers, copy paper, and endless other shape sensitive items are predominately rectangles. The square is the second choice by demand.

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Dec 5, 2015 20:23:48   #
forjava Loc: Half Moon Bay, CA
 
People here dissing the square image layout? Square is established in (1) painting and in (2) photography. Examples of (1) and of (2), anybody?

(1) Painting in square format: I’ve uploaded a quickie APS-C NEF snapshot I just made after reading this topic. The upload is a square-format painting in a square frame. This painting example is appropriate to the head-and-shoulders subject. A rectangle format for this portrait would distract the eye with Wanderlust. A near-identical oil of the same model, Marianne, also rendered by Franz von Stuck, hangs in Villa Stuck.

(2) Photography in square format: A fellow hog uploaded a still life a couple of months ago. It told the story of a tomato, fresh from the garden, on a table, accompanied by a salt shaker and a utensil, all in a square layout. As square put a little extra "still" into this still life, I posted my appreciation of his square concept.

Finally, for a quick take on square’s aesthetics, see http://truecenterpublishing.com/photopsy/square_format.htm

Square is a trend, as other hogs are noting here. Example: Ruby Lane requires square product photography.



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