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UV Filter or Not? You be the judge.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:16:54   #
Jim Bob
 
Screamin Scott wrote:
Don't we just love these people on forums who try & hide themselves so as to just be able to bully, demean & otherwise harass people they don't agree with ? They feel they can act & say whatever they want & be anonymous... Real juvenile behavior don't you think ? That is one of the big problems with the internet...


Yep, we do. However, as*holes are both in hiding and in plain sight. Presumably you know about the latter.

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Oct 5, 2015 12:24:44   #
Joanna27 Loc: Lakewood Ca
 
Thanks for the education. Peace out. :)

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Oct 5, 2015 12:28:54   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
DJO wrote:
A scientist knows that there are no facts, only observations.

It has been my repeated observation that you are an ass.

I really don't want to get into the middle of this, but I'm trying to follow your logic. I'm not so sure, "A scientist knows that there are no facts, only observations.", but assuming you're correct, wouldn't that suggest that it follows that any discussion of the impact of a filter on image quality would also not be factual but based solely on individual observations? If that is the case than it would seem that this whole thread is rather moot since nothing can be factually proven either way, only observed.

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Oct 5, 2015 12:29:37   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
You only proved to everyone just how juvenile you are....
Jim Bob wrote:
Yep, we do. However, as*holes are both in hiding and in plain sight. Presumably you know about the latter.

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Oct 5, 2015 12:40:57   #
revhen Loc: By the beautiful Hudson
 
Where did all these snide, nasty children on UHH come from? Personal attacks indicate that the attacker has lost the logical argument and is compensating by ad hominum attacks.

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Oct 5, 2015 13:08:02   #
Rick from NY Loc: Sarasota FL
 
revhen wrote:
Where did all these snide, nasty children on UHH come from? Personal attacks indicate that the attacker has lost the logical argument and is compensating by ad hominum attacks.


Precisely why I wrote my post asking the moderators to close this thread. I got back the usual snarky crap "that if I don't want to follow the thread, I can ignore it." Entirely missed the point of course. i suggested closing the thread not because I didn't want to follow it; I suggested closing it since it deteriorated into name calling, pettiness and all the rest.

So my final question is, "Does UHH actually have moderators, and if it does, how do they allow this nastiness to continue?"

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Oct 5, 2015 13:15:51   #
Jim Bob
 
Leitz wrote:
Drew my conclusion from reading the title. Read your post, saw nothing to change my opinion.


Not exactly sure how you could make a determination as to photo quality by reading the title. But if you did, more power to you.

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Oct 5, 2015 13:20:15   #
Jim Bob
 
Rick from NY wrote:
For heaven's sake, does this forum utilize moderators who can just shut down threads that devolve from snippy answers to down right rudeness and nasty? I find it amazing that with all of the different suggestions about letting those who like filters and those who do not peacefully coexist, we still get the same few people unable to sleep unless they continue to browbeat all opposing views until they cave in. Some of you guys just will not draw a relaxed breath until you have pummeled the opposition into submission.

We have two or three guys in this thread who fancy themselves Einsteinian physicists. They talk incessently, loudly and condescendingly to we fools who are clearly too stupid to stop using filters. It is obvious that we are clearly lacking in our engineering skills and an understanding of the laws of physics and we are lacking the innate intelligence that these priviledged few have. It is their duty to save us from ourselves; it is being done to save us and therefore must, for our own good, be treated as idiots who don't understand and accept the gospel BS that is being slung around. After all, several people sent us to You Tube videos to luxuriate in that bastion of scientific research posted there. I understand that watching 4 You Tube videos will qualify you for admission to Princeton's Department of physics. Wow. Nothing like visiting a you tube blurb for a deep understanding of natural law.

I beg a moderator to lock the thread, thereby putting these unhappy and petulant people out of their agony caused by the unfulfilled attempt to gain 100% compliance on the subject. Thank the Lord that there is nothing in the Second Amendment that gives photographers the right to bear filters to protect their lenses.

There will be peace between Syria, Iraq, Iran and Israel before the argument of whether photo filters degrade images is settled.
For heaven's sake, does this forum utilize moderat... (show quote)


Rick, I hope you understand it was not my objective to settle something that can not be settled. It was simply to provide information based on poster observation. Those who went off topic would do so regardless. It's just the way the mightier than thou crowd operates within and without this forum.

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Oct 5, 2015 13:21:55   #
Jim Bob
 
Screamin Scott wrote:
You only proved to everyone just how juvenile you are....


Thanks.

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Oct 5, 2015 13:34:16   #
Jim Bob
 
amfoto1 wrote:
And the answer is....

Yes, there can be noticeable difference in image quality.

It might be very, very minimal under the most ideal lighting conditions, such as the original poster set up and tested in the examples shown.

Under more challenging lighting conditions, a filter often can and will be more problematic. Over the years, I've seen and had to deal with that... In some cases it meant some extra post-processing work (which can be a big deal when you have 1000+ images to process). In the worst cases, I ended up trashing otherwise good images that likely would have been fine if no filter had been on the lens.

But it depends on the quality of the filter, too. Better glass and multi-coatings can make a significant differences. However, under the most challenging lighting, even a top of the line filter can cause an increase in image issues.

Meanwhile, realistically, a filter is merely a thin piece of glass that gives very little real world "protection" to a lens. Yes, it can be helpful in certain situations. But it has little value at all preventing damage from even modest impacts. (Do take the time to watch that video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0CLPTd6Bds&feature=youtu.be. Even though that's un-scientific too, it's far better comparison than just the two shots at the beginning of this thread.)

What's not mentioned in that video is that a broken filter actually can do damage to a lens... sharp shards of glass scratching a front element or the coatings on it.

The video does mention... and I agree... that in general a lens hood is far more effective protection when shooting (and so long as it's properly fitted, cannot possibly do any harm to images). And a lens cap does a considerably better job of protection, when storing the lens. In fact and sort of ironically, when using a filter it is even more important to use hoods and caps!

So, decide for yourself and do whatever you want. I have UV filters to fit most of my lenses on hand in my camera bag and selectively use them for "protection". I'll install them in particular situations (sand storms, at the beach, etc.) where they actually might do some good... Situations where the possible benefits of the filter outweigh the possible negative consequences to my images.

I don't find I need to use those protection filters very often. I have other filters that actually serve a real photographic purpose and see a lot more frequent use (circular polarizers, neutral density, portrait special effects, etc.). And I virtually always use lens hoods... and keep my lenses capped when they are stored.

The problem with this thread is that anyone can set up a single instance where it's impossible to tell the difference in an image, where there is almost no way to tell whether or not there is a filter on a lens. That might be interpreted by a reader to mean that in all circumstances, a filter will not do no harm to images and even that it's a good form of protection for one's lenses... neither of which is true.

I could just as easily set up a lighting situation where a filter causes significant image issues and degradation, to make the counter-argument. But I know from experience that there are some situations where a protection filter is useful. Yet I also know that, realistically, the protection provided by a filter is pretty minimal.

Again, you get to decide for yourself. So do whatever makes you happy.
And the answer is.... br br Yes, there can be not... (show quote)


Sorry, but your reply does not answer the inquiry. Everyone knows "there can be a difference". Come on, commit to something.

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Oct 5, 2015 14:00:39   #
Jim Bob
 
BobHartung wrote:
I don't expect a UV filter to have any effect if there is no UV component to the light. Flash is not a UV source as is the sun.


Well there are those who maintain adding an extra piece of glass is bound to adversely affect the image quality. Are you saying it only affects the image in certain lighting conditions? Humm?

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Oct 5, 2015 14:09:46   #
ClinchfieldPaul Loc: Salisbury NC
 
Wow, aren't we picky, when the "cropped" photo is larger than the original photos than I'd say they are "enlarged"

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Oct 5, 2015 14:12:43   #
Jim Bob
 
ClinchfieldPaul wrote:
Wow, aren't we picky, when the "cropped" photo is larger than the original photos than I'd say they are "enlarged"


Huh? Please expatiate.

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Oct 5, 2015 16:01:55   #
CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!
 
DJO wrote:
A scientist knows that there are no facts, only observations.

It has been my repeated observation that you are an ass.

Personal insult aside, your assertion "that there are no facts" clearly indicates that you are not at all familiar with either scientific terminology or procedure.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scientific+fact

You are entitled to your opinion about me... but you are NOT free to misrepresent the truth. :roll:

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Oct 5, 2015 16:08:26   #
Leitz Loc: Solms
 
Jim Bob wrote:
Not exactly sure how you could make a determination as to photo quality by reading the title. But if you did, more power to you.


Even were I not remotely related to Mycroft Holmes on the distaff side, it is elementary, my dear Jim Bob.
First, unless you were using a poor quality filter that is not plane-parallel, or has a marked colour bias, I doubt my ability to discern any differences with anything less than an optical bench - certainly not on my monitor.
Second, I'm not sure what ultra-violet light you think is being blocked in your example. I think you would have done as well with clear glass.

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