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Plane Crashes
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Jun 22, 2015 13:13:10   #
Bmarsh Loc: Bellaire, MI
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Ah, right! Distance is given in miles, though. That's got to be confusing for foreign controllers.



Ah no..... Distance is given in NM (nautical miles) which equal 1.15 x miles

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Jun 22, 2015 13:21:38   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Bmarsh wrote:
Ah no..... Distance is given in NM (nautical miles) which equal 1.15 x miles

Right. 1/60th of a degree or one minute. But planes do fly, right? I got that much right? :D

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Jun 22, 2015 13:22:17   #
Bushpilot Loc: Minnesota
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Ah, right! Distance is given in miles, though. That's got to be confusing for foreign controllers.

I think what we need is a new, third system of measurement that everyone can use - like an Esperanto for measurement. That would catch on quickly, right?


Distance is given in nautical miles, reason being 1 Knot equals 1 nautical mile per hour and 1 nautical mile equals 1 minute of latitude. Useful for navigation as charts give locations in degrees, minutes and 10ths of minutes. Seems the whole world is able to deal with this.

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Jun 22, 2015 13:27:37   #
Smokin' Joe
 
Plane crash map.
http://planecrashmap.com/

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Jun 22, 2015 13:32:12   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Smokin' Joe wrote:
Plane crash map.
http://planecrashmap.com/

Lots and lots of small planes.

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Jun 22, 2015 13:36:35   #
rrforster12 Loc: Leesburg Florida
 
For those interested in aviation accident investigations here are two sites that will provide the official reports on significant accidents chronologically listed, for both light and commercial aircraft.
www.aopa.org/asf/ntsb/index.html (for light aircraft)
www.ntsb.gov/investigations/accident reports/pages/aviation.aspx (for commercial types over 12000 lbs)

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Jun 22, 2015 16:59:33   #
CliffB Loc: Bristol UK
 
Listen to Dave Allens view of flying here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBca1ixoEbg

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Jun 22, 2015 17:04:01   #
Bmarsh Loc: Bellaire, MI
 
rrforster12 wrote:
For those interested in aviation accident investigations here are two sites that will provide the official reports on significant accidents chronologically listed, for both light and commercial aircraft.
www.aopa.org/asf/ntsb/index.html (for light aircraft)
www.ntsb.gov/investigations/accident reports/pages/aviation.aspx (for commercial types over 12000 lbs)


Possibly a better source:

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/month.aspx

which includes ALL accidents/incidents by month.

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Jun 23, 2015 03:01:33   #
Shutter Bugger
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Some Thoughts on Plane Crashes

I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I’ve been watching reports on plane crash investigations on YouTube on my smart tv. Every time a plane crashes, there is an intensive investigation that can last two years or more. There are usually recommendations for changes in the design of the plane or flying procedures, but these recommendations are sometimes ignored. Here are some observations, in no particular order, based on watching several dozen 45-minute reports on air crashes. The word “sometimes” can be added to many of the statements below.

Rushing to take off is a mistake.

Some airlines try to increase profits by running the planes 24/7 and cutting back on maintenance.

Experienced pilots think it’s okay to skip items on the checklist because they’re experienced.

Cultural traditions prevent younger pilots from pointing out errors made by experienced, respected, older pilots. This is especially true in eastern cultures.

Russian pilots, instruments, and procedures are different from those in the rest of the world.

Maintenance workers think they are smart enough that they don’t have to follow procedures.

Pilots think they are smarter than their instruments.

Lack of communication and misunderstandings between pilot and co-pilot is a problem.

English is the universal language of pilots and air traffic controllers.

Not being proficient in English is an all too common problem for pilots.

Politics and “important people” can pressure pilots into taking unnecessary risks. Job security is placed before safety.

Military and commercial planes are a bad mix because they have different rules, equipment, and procedures.

Air traffic controllers work with bad equipment and lack of support.

Air traffic controllers and pilots misunderstand what the other means.

Pilots ignore what they think are small problems, assuming they don’t matter. A little smoke in the plane is an example.

Defects reported by the flight crew may not be repaired for weeks.

Politics in a foreign country can influence the final report on a crash. No matter what happened, it wasn’t their fault.

American and western European pilots have better training than many foreign pilots.

There is no guaranteed safe seat in a plane crash, although up front is usually worse.

One single thing is generally not responsible for a crash. It takes a string of problems and mistakes to bring a plane down.

Small private planes and large commercial airliners are a bad mix.

The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) records for only thirty minutes and then records over itself.

Until recently, the two black boxes (voice and flight data) recorded onto mylar tape.

The black boxes are unbelievably tough, being able to withstand thousands of G forces, thousands of degrees of heat, and tremendous pressure from submersion in the ocean.

When a black box is severely damaged, the NTSB or the box’s manufacturer can often retrieve information from it.

Although most of the world uses the metric system, altitude is reported in feet, and speed in MPH.

When the oxygen masks are deployed because of decompression of the cabin, each mask is powered by a small canister above the passenger. This makes oxygen for about twenty minutes. It can also be a fire hazard because the chemical reactions it produces.
Some Thoughts on Plane Crashes br br I mentioned ... (show quote)


There's a couple of errors in your list Jerry, but vis a vis lives lost in a single collision,
having "Rushing to take off is a mistake." at the top
of the list is dead on
the money

The largest loss of life in aviation history was
due to that. The KLM 747 collision with the (innocent) Pan Am 747
at Tenerife March 27, 1977 claimed 583 people.

The little sentences in the list undermine the actual gravity and complexity of the air safety issue.

As for the comment about "American and western European pilots have better training than many foreign pilots."... National pride compels
me to say one acronym: QANTAS

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Jun 23, 2015 03:12:09   #
Shutter Bugger
 
RiverNan wrote:
could almost scare a person enough not to ever get on a plane.
my hub was on Frontier and they do the 24/7 thing with minimal maintenance
ended up in an emergency landing at the PHiladelphia airport about an hour from home verses the much smaller county airport only 10 minutes from home. pilot had to fly past a tower to be sure landing gear was down as the dash indicator said it wasn't...luckily it was.


Most likely a blown light bulb.

:thumbup:

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Jun 23, 2015 03:16:51   #
Shutter Bugger
 
Cykdelic wrote:
Jerry, you forgot a couple big ones:



"Sometimes Mother Nature has alternative plans"


That's "Pilot Error" for flying into "Mother Nature".

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Jun 23, 2015 03:19:01   #
Shutter Bugger
 
mikeysaling wrote:
I have posted before on aviation safety - always thought that the 'standard' aviation safety statistics which always quote deaths per millions of passenger miles are eyewash . The figures are arrived at by multiplying the number of passengers on a flight by the distance flown e.g 400 souls on a 747 from London to ny 3000 miles = 1,200,000 safe passenger miles ! This is really misleading . Why not quote the number of times each passenger exposes him/her self to the risk - much more realistic. The more you fly the more you expose yourself to the risk of an 'incident' - exactly the same as being in a car - most folk drive or get into their cars twice a day (the drive to and from work) that's 700 exposures per year approx - how many flights do they take per year . If you have time - this is interesting - http://asndata.aviation-safety.net/industry-reports/Boeing-Statistical-Summary-1959-2013.pdf
I have posted before on aviation safety - always t... (show quote)


The stats are "couched" that way, as passengers that are "fat dumb and happy", are easier to manage. :lol:

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Jun 23, 2015 03:31:24   #
Shutter Bugger
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Ah, right! Distance is given in miles, though. That's got to be confusing for foreign controllers.

I think what we need is a new, third system of measurement that everyone can use - like an Esperanto for measurement. That would catch on quickly, right?


LOL. It's Nautical Miles Jerry, that is very universal. Knots and Nautical
miles should not confuse any controller, even if he or she is from Calithumpiastan.

However! in the aviation industry, vis a vis piloting, vertical distance is in feet and horizontal distance, (apart from route distance) such us clearances, are in metres. A metre is a unit of measurement;
NOT FLAMING METERS as you Americans
are so fond of spelling. A "meter" is a calibrated instrument!

There was a time in aviation where a fuel requirement could be in kilograms or pounds or little US gallons or big Imperial gallons or
litres... that situation led to "fuel starvation" more than once.

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Jun 23, 2015 07:51:03   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
Shutter Bugger wrote:
That's "Pilot Error" for flying into "Mother Nature".




Yeah, but sometimes she's just a beyotch!

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Jun 23, 2015 07:53:12   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
Shutterbugger,

We spell differently, and we also have better whiskey!

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