Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Help me Start Post-Processing
Page <<first <prev 4 of 4
Jun 21, 2015 14:26:38   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
hosh wrote:
I have never done any post processing except occasionally minor cropping. After browsing this sight for a few weeks I'm beginning to think I'm missing out on something that can take my images to the next level. I'm a bit nervous as I am not the most computer tech savvy person but I am willing to give it a try. I have a PC not a MAC. I have been learning about shooting RAW instead of JPEG.

1. What do you recommend as a good starter program for post processing?

2. Within that program what tools do you recommend starting out with?

Thank you so much for your feedback. I have learned so much already since finding this forum.
I have never done any post processing except occas... (show quote)


I would highly recommend you start with Adobe Elements 13. It has three user interfaces built in, that you can switch between as you learn and become more capable with your adjustments. Start out with the beginner, most guided level. Then when you feel comfortable, you can switch to a moderately guided mode... and eventually to a relatively unguided expert mode.

Elements is a reasonably affordable and comprehensive stand-alone program... With both cataloging and image optimization capabilities. It borrows many of it's key features from Lightroom and Photoshop, and uses a simplified version of the same Adobe Camera Raw converter as the two bigger programs.

Perhaps the most significant limitation with Elements is that you save images as 8 bit JPEGs... it cannot save 16 bit TIFFs or PSDs. However, the vast majority of image uses are limited to 8 bit JPEGs anyway, so this may not matter at all for many users. (Note: the original RAW file remains untouched, so can later be converted to other formats with other processing software, if desired.)

The problem with Lightroom is that it's a potent cataloging and organizing tool... with relatively light, mostly global image optimization tools. Conversely, Photoshop is the Mac Daddy of all image optimization tools, able to edit images selectively right down to the pixel level... but with minimal cataloging and organizing capabilities. So, neither LR nor PS is truly a full-featured, stand-alone program. They complement each other and many people need and use both.

Some people get by with LR alone... who shoot a lot and need to handle high volume of images, but only process images minimally for online sharing and/or small prints or proofs. Other folks manage with PS alone... they shoot relatively low number of images, don't need a lot or have other means of organizing, sorting and searching them, and more thoroughly optimize select images for high use such as large prints or commercial purposes.

It's very tempting to subscribe for $10 a month and get both LR and PS... but you still need to learn to use them well. LR can be picked up pretty well in a few weeks or a couple months with one or two text books and a lot of practice. Learning to use PS fully can take a junior college 2-year degree worth of courses and a small stack of text books, plus some years of practice with it to become really well versed. There are no "beginner/guided" modes to speak of with LR and PS, the way there are in Elements.

Besides, Elements is a good first step toward eventually "stepping up" to the bigger programs, if you still feel the need to do so.

Within Elements (or any other image editing/RAW conversion software, for that matter), you'll need to become familiar with all the tools it offers. There's no way to suggest just certain ones that you'll need. You'll likely use several more than others, but which ones depend upon what your images tend to need. Get a "how to" book at the same time you buy the program... and/or take an online course or a real class, and check out online tutorials and support forums.

A few other things I'd recommend:

Shoot RAW + JPEG for a while. The JPEG images will be processed in-camera according to the settings of the camera itself. It's always a good idea to "get things right" in-camera. Also, you can use the JPEGs as a guide while you learn to post-process your images. Once your RAW conversions consistently look better than the JPEGs straight out of camera... and you know why the do... you'll probably want to switch to shooting RAW only.

Another thing to consider is calibrating your computer monitor. It's hard to do accurate post-processing without doing so. If not calibrated, your monitor is likely lying to you... it's not really displaying colors correctly and almost certainly is way, way too bright. Nearly all monitors are, at their default setting. A calibration device and software (such as Datacolor Spyder, X-Rite ColorMunki, or Pantone Huey) first helps you set a usable brightness, then displays and analyzes a series of color patches to create a profile that's used to produce more accurate color on your monitor. Further, computer monitors gradually change color and grow dimmer over time with use and age, so need to be re-calibrated every so often. I try to do it every month or two. (And the software alerts me when it's time to re-calibrate.)

Hopefully you are working with a desktop PC in a fixed location. Any portable computer that's moved around has two problems... one is that colors won't be accurate when the ambient light conditions are changed by moving it... the other is that the brightness is often effected by the viewing angle of the screen, which changes every time you open and close a laptop, for example. So, technically speaking, for greatest accuracy you'd have to re-calibrate a portable any time you move it to a different location or open and close a laptop! Since it takes 10 or 15 minutes to calibrate, that would be a royal pain in the arse! A fixed location is much easier. A laptop using a separate, external monitor is a possibility, if not a full desktop setup.

Monitor quality also varies a lot. Consumer models usually have somewhat less color gamut... i.e. they clip off colors in certain ranges. Better graphics quality monitors can usually display a wider gamut that's closer to what's possible with a print. But, even using one of those, I'm always pleasantly surprised to discover more shadow and highlight detail in my images, once they are printed (especially when using a smooth, matte paper... which is best for sharpness and focus evaluation, too).

Yes, you'll need adequate PC setup to handle image files, which can be relatively large in size... plus in sheer number eventually. Figure out an organization that works for you in advance, if you haven't already done so.

Oh, and back up your files!

Hope this helps!

Reply
Jun 21, 2015 15:28:15   #
markngolf Loc: Bridgewater, NJ
 
I think all of the previous suggestions are worthy of consideration. I use Photoshop CC, Lightroom & Photoshop Elements 11. Scott Kelby does have some excellent books for each. There are also many online tutorials available to you. Elements is easy, friendly and might be a good place to begin. Elements 13 is available too.

Just jump in and begin. It is a learning process. Elements has three different levels of use. Quick, Guided and Expert. I might be able to offer you a free copy of Element's 11(digital download). Send me a private message and we can go from there.

Good luck,
Mark

Reply
Jun 21, 2015 16:17:25   #
hswader Loc: Bedford, PA
 
brucewells wrote:
Congratulations on your decision! You are going to get all sorts of recommendations that may confuse you. I would encourage you to remain resolute in your decision. It isn't for the feint of heart, but once you get the ball rolling, and you see the difference you can make in your images, that will be encouragement enough.

I'm going to recommend Lightroom, for a number of reasons, but the number one reason is that there is tons and tons of instruction on the tool available from so many sources. Additionally, Adobe is in the business of providing these tools, and have been for many years. This isn't to say that the other tools are no good!! Many of them are very, very capable, but instruction just isn't as plentiful for them as it is for Lightroom.

My best recommendation is Lightroom and purchase a copy of the book "Adobe Lightroom Classroom in a Book". The book is very easy to follow, it's intuitive to read and most importantly, will have you productive in Lightroom in no time. Additionally, you can download and use Lightroom for free for 30 days.

Good luck in your endeavor!!
Congratulations on your decision! You are going to... (show quote)

hswader here, You might want to check out a PP program that I use now and then. It's called Zoner Photo Studio 16x64. I think it has a free version; at least, if not totally free. It seems pretty easy, but not hard to learn, ok? Just thought I'd jump in here. Sorry about that, ok?

Reply
 
 
Jun 21, 2015 16:19:25   #
hswader Loc: Bedford, PA
 
Oop's put that in the wrong place, didn't I? Meant to put it here. Kinda new about this stuff
hswader

Reply
Jun 21, 2015 17:50:39   #
forjava Loc: Half Moon Bay, CA
 
I am very new to PP, so I remember what I'd do differently if that were possible. ;>)

You have a wealth of information in the earlier replies, so you can get off to a good start. The crucial initial step is to avoid going down a path that is unresponsive to your needs.

If you decide on LR, then adopt the current version, to avoid time-wasting version issues. The third way to lose momentum, if you choose LR, is to start your PP adventure by fixing your pictures. The antidote to this temptation is to treat LR navigation as the foundation for all of PP in LR and PS.

With LR, be prepared for some significant overhead (time) as you need new skills to navigate. When you shall have popped out at the other end, you will see that developing LR navigation skills is foundational and you are likely to feel that a couple of days, focused on navigation alone, is justified up front.

For maximum speed in mastering LR navigation -- navigation is not intuitive -- I offer this recipe, in retrospect:

(1) To get an initial grasp of the overall navigation framework, work through the incredibly short discussions and recipes in the first two chapters of "Teach yourself Lightroom." This is in magazine format, sold in bookstores. Skip selected topics, like maybe location tagging, as being non-essential to your budding navigation skills. When you have the foundation to move beyond navigation, pay an early visit to pp. 60-61, a short exercise in removing color casts.

(2) Consider the just-issued 2015! Kelby book recommended to you here by other hogs -- it has longer, practical navigation recipes and crucial tips in the first two chapters. While these workflow chapters are quite long, you can, as a beginner focused on learning navigation, skip over a goodly number of the topics, for example, face tagging and smart collections.

brucewells wrote:
Congratulations on your decision! You are going to get all sorts of recommendations that may confuse you. I would encourage you to remain resolute in your decision. It isn't for the feint of heart, but once you get the ball rolling, and you see the difference you can make in your images, that will be encouragement enough.

I'm going to recommend Lightroom, for a number of reasons, but the number one reason is that there is tons and tons of instruction on the tool available from so many sources. Additionally, Adobe is in the business of providing these tools, and have been for many years. This isn't to say that the other tools are no good!! Many of them are very, very capable, but instruction just isn't as plentiful for them as it is for Lightroom.


My best recommendation is Lightroom and purchase a copy of the book "Adobe Lightroom Classroom in a Book". The book is very easy to follow, it's intuitive to read and most importantly, will have you productive in Lightroom in no time. Additionally, you can download and use Lightroom for free for 30 days.

Good luck in your endeavor!!
Congratulations on your decision! You are going to... (show quote)

Reply
Jun 21, 2015 19:42:36   #
DVZ Loc: Littleton CO
 
Wow, have you asked an open ended question. If you are asking about processing a lot of raw files then Lightroom isn't a bad option. I've used Lightroom quite a bit but have opted for ACDSee instead as a raw processor. I prefer ACDSee for a number of reasons, not that it is better it just operates the way I think which in the end is huge. For processing jpg's I have recently adopted GIMP but I have used PhotoShop, PhotoShop Elements, Corel's Paint Shop Pro and Serifs products all of which are good. There is a lot of good options, but if you are processing a lot of raw files then LR or ACDSee is what I am familiar with. If you are processing a select number of raws the the free program Raw Therapy is excellent but harder to figure out than LR of ACDSee. The main drawback to GIMP is that, right now it does not have adjustment layers. Otherwise it's free and is very powerful.

Reply
Jun 21, 2015 21:16:45   #
stan0301 Loc: Colorado
 
Sort of like Hamlet "to be or not to be"--get Photoshop--6 would be more than fine--then get and use Scott Kelby's book, and you will be fine--the light weight programs are mostly a waste of time--get the real thing, run your images through Bridge, and then use Photoshop to get the chosen ones ready to print.
Stan

Reply
 
 
Jun 21, 2015 21:31:09   #
latebloomer Loc: Topeka, KS
 
NormanHarley wrote:
Not knowing how much I would use Lightroom has kept me from paying the ten dollars a month. I am a hobbyist and I only lightly process and crop around 200 pictures a month. The free programs have been good enough for my uses. If I ever move to the next level in my photography, I would probably purchase a more powerful program. I know the serious photographers need and use Lightroom. I am just not there yet, and I may never be. OP might want to consider the free trial of Lightroom. I haven't tried it yet...
Not knowing how much I would use Lightroom has kep... (show quote)

If you go for Elements 13, get the Adobe Photoshop Elements Classroom in a Book. It includes images to practice on. It is very good. I like Elements 13.

That said, I believe that the vast vast majority of positive experiences on UHH are expressed about Lightroom. Lightroom must be doing something right.

Reply
Jun 21, 2015 23:50:36   #
cameranut Loc: North Carolina
 
hosh wrote:
I have never done any post processing except occasionally minor cropping. After browsing this sight for a few weeks I'm beginning to think I'm missing out on something that can take my images to the next level. I'm a bit nervous as I am not the most computer tech savvy person but I am willing to give it a try. I have a PC not a MAC. I have been learning about shooting RAW instead of JPEG.

1. What do you recommend as a good starter program for post processing?

2. Within that program what tools do you recommend starting out with?

Thank you so much for your feedback. I have learned so much already since finding this forum.
I have never done any post processing except occas... (show quote)


I agree with SteveR. I use Photo Gallery for most of my pp if I don't need to make major changes to a photo. If you have Windows 7 it is already on there. You won't have to download it. You would be surprised at what all you can do with it & it is EASY. Good starting point for learning.

Reply
Jun 22, 2015 00:07:48   #
Collie lover Loc: St. Louis, MO
 
Corel PaintShop Pro X7.

Reply
Jun 22, 2015 16:29:57   #
akretiree Loc: Anchorage
 
:thumbup:

Reply
 
 
Jun 23, 2015 11:19:27   #
hosh Loc: Hollywood FL
 
gvarner wrote:
Be sure to school yourself in how your PC works if you already don't have a handle on that. File structure, ROM, RAM, storage devices, the basics. Nothing worse than trying to get something to work on an underpowered computer. If software says 6G RAM is a minimum, try to have twice that.


Thank you that is great advice. I will definitely need an upgrade on my PC, or I was considering purchasing a laptop solely for my photography. Any thoughts on that?

Reply
Jun 23, 2015 11:25:52   #
hosh Loc: Hollywood FL
 
gvarner wrote:
Be sure to school yourself in how your PC works if you already don't have a handle on that. File structure, ROM, RAM, storage devices, the basics. Nothing worse than trying to get something to work on an underpowered computer. If software says 6G RAM is a minimum, try to have twice that.


Thank you that is great advice. I will definitely need an upgrade on my PC, or I was considering purchasing a laptop solely for my photography. Any thoughts on that?

Reply
Jun 23, 2015 16:45:10   #
forjava Loc: Half Moon Bay, CA
 
I do have a Mac Book dedicated to photography. but have a second display for photography, which appears quite different from the laptop. The laptop display is unreliable due to tilt changing its appearance. A larger external monitor seems critical for evaluating images. LR has nice capabilities for a second screen, ably described in the Kelby book that others recommended.

hosh wrote:
Thank you that is great advice. I will definitely need an upgrade on my PC, or I was considering purchasing a laptop solely for my photography. Any thoughts on that?

Reply
Page <<first <prev 4 of 4
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.