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Precautions when going from warm indoor temps to sub zero outdoor temps?
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Feb 1, 2015 07:54:51   #
sb Loc: Florida's East Coast
 
Never a bad idea to let your equipment acclimatize slowly - however - cold air holds much less water than warm air - so there will be less moisture concerns in cold air than in warm air, and in a cold climate/season. Theoretically, coming in to a warm home from the cold could cause condensation problems - but for most of us in the winter we have extremely dry environments in our home. If you have a very effective humidifier, then definitely protect your equipment when coming indoors. In places like the tropics the warm air has almost 100% humidity - so the moisture will very quickly condense.

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Feb 1, 2015 09:58:21   #
Papa Joe Loc: Midwest U.S.
 
Smokey66 wrote:
I'm aware of the need to bag ones camera and acclimatize the camera when returning indoors from the cold outdoors, but what precautions should I take when taking my camera gear from a warm house to a very cold outdoors?




Just put on some warm, comfortable clothes, ear muffs and gloves and start shooting. Coming back inside.... that's yet another story.

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Feb 1, 2015 10:02:36   #
vsimmons
 
MT Shooter has a very informative tip on his page: http://www.cameracottage.com. I hope he doesn't mind me passing it along, but it might be helpful.

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Feb 1, 2015 11:12:01   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
sb wrote:
Never a bad idea to let your equipment acclimatize slowly - however - cold air holds much less water than warm air - so there will be less moisture concerns in cold air than in warm air, and in a cold climate/season. Theoretically, coming in to a warm home from the cold could cause condensation problems - but for most of us in the winter we have extremely dry environments in our home. If you have a very effective humidifier, then definitely protect your equipment when coming indoors. In places like the tropics the warm air has almost 100% humidity - so the moisture will very quickly condense.
Never a bad idea to let your equipment acclimatize... (show quote)

You got it right that cold air holds less water. Unfortunately you aren't drawing the right conclusions about the significance of that.

Letting equipment "acclimatize" slowly wastes time and effort and has no benefits in terms of moisture condensation. Find ways to make it happen faster and you'll benefit.

It is far more than theoretical that going from a "colder" environment to a "warmer" environment causes problems. Note that "colder" can be an air conditioned home in Florida where "warmer" is what happens when you walk out the door on a hot muggy day! That is not really different than here in Barrow with an average outside temperature of 11.8F where "warmer" is when we go inside.

The significance is a temperature called the "Dew Point". Whatever the temperature and moisture content of the air is, if that air is cooled to below the dew point some of the moisture in the air will condense and become liquid. If the air is 100 degrees and has 10% relative humidity, the dew point will be much less than 100 degrees but if your camera is 10 degrees colder than that it is going to collect moisture! No matter what the temperature is, 100 percent Relative Humidity means it is right at the dew point and any drop in temperature will be accompanied by condensed moisture.

It is true that some homes have very low humidity in the winter. Heating up outside air, that has relatively little moisture content, lowers the relative humidity, so if nothing else adds moisture the house will have low relative humidity. But, we cook, wash clothes, take showers and other things that put huge amounts of water into the air, raising the relative humidity.

Still, for the camera, all that counts is whether it is above or below the dew point for the air inside the house. If it is below, it will cool the air and cause condensation. That is true even if the house has a relative humidity of only 10%!

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Feb 1, 2015 11:33:27   #
Moles Loc: South Carolina
 
As a winter sports photographer, I have gone from a warm press room into the cold, and return thousands of times. Nothing needs to be done when taking the camera from warm to cold. However, going back from cold to warm, the camera is unfazed, but the lens will acquire condensation and a need little time for it to evaporate. If I need to take an indoor photo shortly after arriving to the press room, I will leave a lens behind in the warm room, and just swap lenses.
Smokey66 wrote:
I'm aware of the need to bag ones camera and acclimatize the camera when returning indoors from the cold outdoors, but what precautions should I take when taking my camera gear from a warm house to a very cold outdoors?

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Feb 1, 2015 11:37:59   #
SonnyE Loc: Communist California, USA
 
Wear a coat.

I always wore a Walls Blizzard Proof suit, and Sorrel paks with heavy felt liners.

And be sure you have your neck strap on so you don't drop your picture box. ;)

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Feb 1, 2015 11:47:52   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
SonnyE wrote:
Wear a coat.

I always wore a Walls Blizzard Proof suit, and Sorrel paks with heavy felt liners.

And be sure you have your neck strap on so you don't drop your picture box. ;)

Yeah, but... For Californians that's at 60F, right?

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Feb 1, 2015 12:26:33   #
SheriB Loc: York Co, PA
 
Apaflo wrote:

For example, it is often said that cameras should be put into ZipLoc seal bags before bringing them inside from the cold. Bad idea! You can't open the bag and get at the card or battery without letting all kinds of warm moist air into the bag. ..


And that is why some of us take the card out of the camera before they bag it, before walking into the house. Even if the only 'bagging' I am doing is letting the camera sit in my heavily padded, aka insulated, camera bag. That will let it slowly warm up. Of course unlike a previous poster who is in and out shooting, I am a casual photographer.

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Feb 1, 2015 12:34:40   #
SonnyE Loc: Communist California, USA
 
Apaflo wrote:
Yeah, but... For Californians that's at 60F, right?


Yep.
Sometimes 70...

But, in Wyoming, the winter of '78-'79 we saw wind chill temperatures off the charts at -104F.
WONDERFUL night of huddling in front of a salamander.
The mining equipment came to a screeching halt because the Diesel fuel gelled in the tanks and lines.

I'm glad to be back in my home State, uhh, weather wise that is.
I've never been cold since I moved back.

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Feb 1, 2015 12:48:11   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
SheriB wrote:
And that is why some of us take the card out of the camera before they bag it, before walking into the house. Even if the only 'bagging' I am doing is letting the camera sit in my heavily padded, aka insulated, camera bag. That will let it slowly warm up. Of course unlike a previous poster who is in and out shooting, I am a casual photographer.

No point in warming a camera up slowly.

The problem with ZipLoc bags are that you must retrieve the card while outside where ever it is you are when the camera is bagged (and risk dropping and losing the card). It can't be retrieved once everything is inside and handling a card is safe and easy. If a kitchen sized plastic trash bag is used instead of the ZipLoc bag there is no problem to worry about.

Padded camera bags are like ZipLoc bags in that respect. They also mean it takes forever to warm up the camera, which is not a benefit.

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Feb 1, 2015 13:07:47   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
SonnyE wrote:
Yep.
Sometimes 70...

But, in Wyoming, the winter of '78-'79 we saw wind chill temperatures off the charts at -104F.

That's back when they reported "wind chill index", but today it's the "wind chill factor", and your -104F would probably only be a mere -80 or so! I'm sure that warms up your memories by 20 degrees... :-)

SonnyE wrote:
WONDERFUL night of huddling in front of a salamander.
The mining equipment came to a screeching halt because the Diesel fuel gelled in the tanks and lines.

Somebody had Diesel #2 instead of #1. It's less expensive, but...

Same thing if you use bottled propane for cooking. At about -48 it won't vaporize, so half way through dinner preparations the cook comes unglued when the stove quits. Not to worry... take a sauce pan full of hot water outside and poor it on the top of the propane bottle. Then go finish cooking dinner.

SonnyE wrote:
I'm glad to be back in my home State, uhh, weather wise that is.
I've never been cold since I moved back.

Boring weather.

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Feb 1, 2015 13:20:52   #
SonnyE Loc: Communist California, USA
 
Apaflo wrote:
Boring weather.


Sez Nannook of the North.

:roll:

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Feb 1, 2015 13:57:24   #
John_F Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 
I would guess the main problem would be the indoor humidity and the camera's aclimation to it. Going into sub-zero temps could cause condensation and freezing which could affect the camera's internal moving parts. Also, the internal moving parts would have been factory lubricated with what and could impede motion at sub-zero temperatures.

What are the factoids.

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Feb 1, 2015 14:37:54   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
John_F wrote:
I would guess the main problem would be the indoor humidity and the camera's aclimation to it. Going into sub-zero temps could cause condensation and freezing which could affect the camera's internal moving parts. Also, the internal moving parts would have been factory lubricated with what and could impede motion at sub-zero temperatures.

What are the factoids.

"Going into sub-zero temps" does not cause condensation. Freezing will not affect internal camera parts, and the lubrications that have been used in cameras for the past 20-30 years now are good to about -80F.

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Feb 1, 2015 15:17:07   #
mcveed Loc: Kelowna, British Columbia (between trips)
 
Smokey66 wrote:
I'm aware of the need to bag ones camera and acclimatize the camera when returning indoors from the cold outdoors, but what precautions should I take when taking my camera gear from a warm house to a very cold outdoors?


Dress warm. Take spare batteries and keep them warm. Avoid breathing on your camera when shooting, especially the viewfinder as you will find it difficult to clean the frozen condensation off of it. Take a large plastic bag with you to put the camera into before entering a warm/humid house. We really shouldn't be talking about the concerns of taking a camera from a cold to a warm place, but rather from a cold to a humid place. For example taking a cold camera into a warm but empty car is usually not a problem. Good indicator - if your glasses fog your camera will fog up. If you do mess up and take a cold camera into a warm/humid place and it fogs up, remove the battery and put the camera into a plastic bag to limit further condensation until it warms up. Then take it out of the bag and put it in the driest warm place you can find to dry out. Whatever you do don't take a fogged up camera back outside.
If you need a more detailed explanation regarding the cold metal cooling the air immediately around it to below the dew point, etc then pm me

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