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Actual photo vs lightroom modifications
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Jan 3, 2015 21:19:11   #
lighthouse Loc: No Fixed Abode
 
Hey, I want an Edsel & a De Soto and I want to process my images. Where does that leave me?!

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Jan 3, 2015 21:28:40   #
AmyJ Loc: Maryland
 
Gene51 wrote:
Amy, there is this widely perpetuated misconception that image manipulation is somehow disingenuous and "false photography." There is no question that documentary, forensic and product photography must be true to life and cannot be manipulated.

Not only did Adams adjust his print process to reflect his ever evolving vision, in the case of Moonrise, he even took the only existing negative of that shot and partially reprocessed it to enhance contrast in some of the areas of the image.

At this point I usually say something like - those who express their disdain for post processing for whatever the reason are either ignorant, lazy, or have low standards for image quality. Or they shoot for newspapers. :)

Some of the best photographers I know personally do amazing reportage, and I am in constant awe of their skill and the results they get. It's a job I know I could never do. At least not as successfully as they can.

I think a competition of SOOC would have a lot of boring lifeless images with little impact - similar to the "before" version of Moonrise. It should be done with all of the picture controls set to neutral or minimal effect - no vivid saturation, extra sharpening, film modes, in camera HDR, Active D Lighting, etc etc etc - and with either daylight or 3200K white balance - - only then could it be considered somewhat fair.
Amy, there is this widely perpetuated misconceptio... (show quote)




And never underestimate the impact of art & photography. On a personal note, the photograph Moonrise inspired me to move on at a difficult time of great loss in my life. I'm not sure the "before" version of Moonrise would have been as compelling.

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Jan 3, 2015 22:22:37   #
Mr PC Loc: Austin, TX
 
To each their own. I would love to shoot everything perfectly SOOC and I have friends that only will keep their own work if it's perfect. They have some incredible framed photos in their homes. I'm not that good. Instead, I usually shoot wider than what I know I'll actually use and a lot of composition happens in post. There have been times when one wide shot has yielded several very good separate images for me. I don't like overdone post-processing either, but I do dabble in HDR and other techniques to make my images more closely resemble what my mind's eye remembers. I label my work as compositions and if they please me, fine, if someone else likes it, even better. No one would be happier than me to get a WOW shot SOOC, but those are few and far between for us mere mortals. Besides, many of us enjoy post-processing almost as much as capturing the image in the first place.

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Jan 4, 2015 03:49:25   #
Searcher Loc: Kent, England
 
Tony.mustang wrote:
Hi, when I look at some photos in the photo gallery it is obvious that some of the photos go thru some form of software.however I think some photos look good and some are over done. I would like to see the photo contest to consist of a straight photos vs software adjustments. I believe more members would enter the photo contest if we had such a category.


The Post Processing section is a good place to see before and after images.

The contest pages are intended for those striving for the best, not for "look what I can do to this muddy image."

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Jan 4, 2015 08:10:00   #
accuseal Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
 
Tony.mustang wrote:
Hi, when I look at some photos in the photo gallery it is obvious that some of the photos go thru some form of software.however I think some photos look good and some are over done. I would like to see the photo contest to consist of a straight photos vs software adjustments. I believe more members would enter the photo contest if we had such a category.


If you shoot JPEGs, your camera is applying PP to every image.

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Jan 4, 2015 08:11:47   #
DaveHam Loc: Reading UK
 
If you shoot RAW then some degree of post processing is inevitably required to adjust.
A common error is over-saturation, with unrealistic colours being forced into the image. Another is over sharpening.
However what one person sees as good in a photo may not appeal to someone else.

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Jan 4, 2015 08:22:07   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Tony.mustang wrote:
Hi, when I look at some photos in the photo gallery it is obvious that some of the photos go thru some form of software.however I think some photos look good and some are over done. I would like to see the photo contest to consist of a straight photos vs software adjustments. I believe more members would enter the photo contest if we had such a category.

I'm sure others do exactly what I do. I make the picture look the way I want it to look. Even an image straight out of the camera involves a picture that was composed at the time and place the photographer chose. It's all about personal choice and preference.

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Jan 4, 2015 08:26:08   #
MW
 
Tony.mustang wrote:
Hi, when I look at some photos in the photo gallery it is obvious that some of the photos go thru some form of software.however I think some photos look good and some are over done. I would like to see the photo contest to consist of a straight photos vs software adjustments. I believe more members would enter the photo contest if we had such a category.


I have Fuji and a Nikon. Same sensor size. If I were to set up to take exactly the same photo with each - same aperture, shutter speed, focal length, time of day, same tripod etc - I would get two different photos. So the only way you could begin to make the contest you suggest fair would be to issue each contestant the same camera. Otherwise you won't know if you are judging the camera as much as the photographer.

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Jan 4, 2015 08:34:52   #
Tony.mustang
 
Hi, I only raised a question I have no intention to get people upset so lighten up. As I mentioned in my first message I am still new to the hobby and I think I learned a lot from most responders . Your strong opinions of my message do not deserve a response. Keep snapping and enjoy. Tony

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Jan 4, 2015 08:42:36   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
JPL wrote:
This is an interesting suggestion. But it is technically almost impossible to do what you suggest by using digital cameras. That is because there are no "straight" photos when you shoot digital. Already when you shoot digital the cameras are set to PP the photos in jpeg and on many cameras those settings (colors, contrast, sharpness etc) can be and usually are fine tuned be each camera user. And if you try to bypass this by allowing only RAW files in the photo contest most of the files from newer cameras would be too big to send them in so then again you need to go to PP to convert the files to be able to send them in and then again you are not anymore using "straight" photos.
This is an interesting suggestion. But it is tech... (show quote)


I believe I am correct in saying that even RAW files have a small amount of automatic PP both in camera and, more significantly, when opened in a PP program when first viewed (before operator adjustments)?

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Jan 4, 2015 08:58:16   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
Tony.mustang wrote:
Hi, when I look at some photos in the photo gallery it is obvious that some of the photos go thru some form of software.however I think some photos look good and some are over done. I would like to see the photo contest to consist of a straight photos vs software adjustments. I believe more members would enter the photo contest if we had such a category.


If post-processing is over done then it looks bad and will not gather many votes. If you create a compelling image straight out of the camera then it should be competitive with others within the competition, yes.

I think it would be a disservice to film photographers and people who do enter with no pp to separate them out. By separating them you are in effect saying these images are inferior to those that are post processed.

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Jan 4, 2015 09:09:35   #
dsnoke Loc: North Georgia, USA
 
This is an interesting idea. While all digital cameras do some PP, limiting a contest to the best you can get from your camera would be a challenge for most of the respondents, if I have read them correctly. For example, if you ever adjust white balance in PP, why did you not do it at the time you took the picture? Similarly for cropping. I might try this just to experiment with all the software in my light-collecting computer (D7100).

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Jan 4, 2015 09:24:34   #
pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
 
Gene51 wrote:
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


"Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future."



Simple but very poignant. Gene, mind if I borrow that and credit the source?

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Jan 4, 2015 09:25:00   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
Gene51 wrote:
Here is a before PP and after PP version of an image that you might recognize. Other than the fact that the photographer did a great job of getting all of the tones recorded in order to manipulate it in post, does the SOOC image have any significant relevance? Would you consider the SOOC image one that you would regard as a work of art?

http://www.kevinshick.com/blog/2013/4/revisiting-hernandez-nm

A measure of the "completeness" of a photographer is one who "sees" the final result BEFORE snapping the shutter, uses his/her knowledge of the gear and media to set the camera correctly, then execute a masterful handling of the image to create a result that is true to the original vision.

If you cut out the post processing, then images might never reach their full potential.

With that being said, yes, I too have seen quite a few images that are overprocessed. It doesn't mean post processing is bad, it just means that the photographer over did things a bit. All digital cameras produce images require processing. Whether the photographer is content with the limited set of adjustments provided by the camera manufacturer in their menus, and scene settings, or he/she is skilled in extracting the "essence" of the original vision - will determine the quality, uniqueness, and impact of the result.
Here is a before PP and after PP version of an ima... (show quote)


Great example!

RAW is the exposed but undeveloped film, the RAW converter is image processing on steroids (considering the amount of control in ACR, Lightroom, and others), and then refinement is the forum (LR, PS, and others) where the photographer makes the image sing or sink.

Like Moonrise by Adams, we can go back and modify endlessly in pursuit of an image that reflects our thoughts and feelings at the moment. Adams modified the negative of Moonrise some ten yeas after first printing it to further enhance the image.

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Jan 4, 2015 09:42:44   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Delderby wrote:
I believe I am correct in saying that even RAW files have a small amount of automatic PP both in camera and, more significantly, when opened in a PP program when first viewed (before operator adjustments)?


Nope! :)

What you might be seeing is the way the camera interprets the camera settings at the time of capture, as a jpeg preview. All settings are in play with raw files.

When you deal with raw files from different cameras, there will be differences between the response characteristics of the individual sensors.

There is no image processing, but the camera settings are saved as tags in the metadata. Image settings are assignable in raw development, and though exposure is coded into the file, it can be adjusted by a broad range without creating artifacts and/or posterization.

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