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Which Mirrorless Cameras Allow Exposure Metering While Setting ISO?
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Jan 2, 2015 14:47:43   #
aflundi Loc: Albuquerque, NM
 
JPL wrote:
What I see in the viewfinder on my A7r while setting the ISO regarding exposure metering is the following:

Shutter speed
F number (when using lenses that provide that info)
Over/under exposure to -5/+5 in steps of 1/3rd
ISO number.

If I set the ISO in aperture mode for example, the shutter speed goes up or down as I change the ISO so the meter is obviously at work when I am changing the ISO. When in manual mode the over/underexposure meter moves according to ISO changes so there everything works as expected also.
On top of this I can also set the camera by pressing one button to show me histogram in the viewfinder, but that histogram disappears when adjusting ISO.

Hope this helps, I am verifying this info as I am writing here.
What I see in the viewfinder on my A7r while setti... (show quote)


That is helpful. So count the a7 series in. (Boy, it sure is hard to get that from the user manual. Does anyone like Sony's new manual format?) Thanks.

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Jan 2, 2015 14:52:03   #
aflundi Loc: Albuquerque, NM
 
Morning Star wrote:
Me again.
I just set the camera (E-M1) to "M", I can change Exposure time, f/stop, ISO and white balance, all with moving one little handle and rotating two wheels (not at the same time), all without taking my eye away from the viewfinder.
As I move the wheels, I can see the image get darker or lighter.

Of course the camera does not do any metering, as I am the one to determine at what numbers I want to set the various dials, and if I change one, the camera does not automatically change another one as it would with Aperture or Shutter priority.
Me again. br I just set the camera (E-M1) to "... (show quote)


Yeah, I have an E-P2 which work the same. Sadly, not useful. Too bad. :-(

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Jan 2, 2015 15:09:22   #
Morning Star Loc: West coast, North of the 49th N.
 
I find this exchange very interesting, but don't understand this:
JPL wrote:
...snip...
If I set the ISO in aperture mode for example, the shutter speed goes up or down as I change the ISO so the meter is obviously at work when I am changing the ISO. When in manual mode the over/underexposure meter moves according to ISO changes so there everything works as expected also. ...snip...
(emphasis mine)
So, if I have the camera in aperture mode, the camera increases the shutter speed while you decrease the aperture.
Makes sense, to keep the correct balance of light.
Now I have the camera in manual mode, I set exposure to, say, 1/250 second, aperture to f/5.6 and ISO to 200. I have exposure compensation at 0.
So, why would any of the others move, if I move just one of these settings? Isn't the whole purpose of shooting in manual to have total control of all settings, and not have one setting influence another one?
Please, tell me what I missed or misread.

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Jan 2, 2015 15:13:32   #
oldtigger Loc: Roanoke Virginia-USA
 
Morning Star wrote:
I find this exchange very interesting, but don't understand this:
(emphasis mine)
So, if I have the camera in aperture mode, the camera increases the shutter speed while you decrease the aperture.
Makes sense, to keep the correct balance of light.
Now I have the camera in manual mode, I set exposure to, say, 1/250 second, aperture to f/5.6 and ISO to 200. I have exposure compensation at 0.
So, why would any of the others move, if I move just one of these settings? Isn't the whole purpose of shooting in manual to have total control of all settings, and not have one setting influence another one?
Please, tell me what I missed or misread.
I find this exchange very interesting, but don't u... (show quote)


none should move. you don't want them to move each other.
I think he just wants his exposure bar to show a change is required.

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Jan 2, 2015 15:20:18   #
JPL
 
Morning Star wrote:
I find this exchange very interesting, but don't understand this:
(emphasis mine)
So, if I have the camera in aperture mode, the camera increases the shutter speed while you decrease the aperture.
Makes sense, to keep the correct balance of light.
Now I have the camera in manual mode, I set exposure to, say, 1/250 second, aperture to f/5.6 and ISO to 200. I have exposure compensation at 0.
So, why would any of the others move, if I move just one of these settings? Isn't the whole purpose of shooting in manual to have total control of all settings, and not have one setting influence another one?
Please, tell me what I missed or misread.
I find this exchange very interesting, but don't u... (show quote)


Those things are hard to explain in written and also easy to misunderstand. What the camera does with the exposure compensation meter in manual mode is not to under or overexpose automatically, but it uses the meter to show you how far from "correct" exposure you are with your current manual settings. There fore the meter moves when adjusting f.x. ISO in manual mode.

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Jan 2, 2015 15:21:21   #
JPL
 
oldtigger wrote:
none should move. you don't want them to move each other.
I think he just wants his exposure bar to show a change is required.


Your understanding on this is correct.

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Jan 2, 2015 15:26:27   #
JPL
 
aflundi wrote:
That is helpful. So count the a7 series in. (Boy, it sure is hard to get that from the user manual. Does anyone like Sony's new manual format?) Thanks.


Thanks, good to be of some help.
Frankly, I have not yet looked at the Sony A7r user manual. What I do usually when I get stuck trying to figure something that does not easily pop up when fiddling the camera is to google it. That usually results in lot of useful info with pics for better understanding. I recommend that.

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Jan 2, 2015 16:15:05   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
oldtigger wrote:
none should move. you don't want them to move each other.
I think he just wants his exposure bar to show a change is required.


In the situation described the EM1 exposure bar will tell you what the camera thinks is best with the setting you have chosen but it will not make changes, that's up to you. The ISO can be set to full manual or you set parameters for auto ISO. This needs to be set for each shooting mode.

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Jan 2, 2015 16:20:37   #
Clemens Loc: Maryland
 
Your sample is shown in full manual control if that is what you wish. Using the same setting but only changing the ISO into Auto you still have full manual control (aperture / shutter and exposure compensation ) The only thing the camera does is giving you the correct ISO for the correct exposure (based on the information you give the camera) By the way the Sony manuals do suck.I would suggest to look into Gary Friedman

http://www.friedmanarchives.com/alpha6000/

oldtigger wrote:
none should move. you don't want them to move each other.
I think he just wants his exposure bar to show a change is required.

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Jan 3, 2015 07:21:41   #
Harry Thomas Loc: Doylestown, Pennsylvania
 
aflundi wrote:
Are there any mirrorless cameras that provide exposure metering information while ISO is being set? Every mirrorless I have (P&S or ILC) will not meter during ISO adjustment, so if I want to set ISO last after aperture and shutter speed (which is what I usually prefer to do), I have to adjust blind, as sort of a sad throwback to film days.

Fortunately, my dSLRs don't have that problem, but I'll bet it's more because dSLR viewfinders are intrinsically so primitive compared to EVFs more than any forward-thinking on the part of the manufacturers. Whatever the reason, I'll take it in the dSLRs, but wish I could find a mirrorless that did it.
Are there any mirrorless cameras that provide expo... (show quote)


The Sony RX100II will also satisfy your needs and approach.

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Jan 3, 2015 07:30:32   #
Preachdude Loc: Geneva, OH
 
aflundi wrote:
Mostly because I see what most people do (and I used to do before I figured it out) -- setting ISO first -- as a backwards holdover from film days when than was the only way you could do it.

If I want a shutter speed for some effect and also want an aperture for some effect -- which is typical for me (and like it or not, for most everyone else), the only way I can set the exposure is via ISO. It's sort of silly to go through the typical trial-and-error or having to do the math in your head, when you could just meter it directly and quickly.

Even if you don't get it yet and want to continue doing it the old way, then fine, but at least a few of us shoot this way, so I'd like to find any mirrorless cameras that allow it.
Mostly because I see what most people do (and I us... (show quote)


It seems to me you're still clinging to the days of film. There is another strategy that I suggest you consider. In this digital age, you can select the precise lens and shutter settings you need to use, and let the camera will select the *ideal* ISO for you in that situation. Why not set your preferred upper and lower limits for ISO and go from there?

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Jan 3, 2015 08:01:26   #
ole sarg Loc: south florida
 
The canon powershot G16 can do it.

aflundi wrote:
Yeah, that's a good candidate to check. Thanks.

Any others?

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Jan 3, 2015 08:13:17   #
lighthouse Loc: No Fixed Abode
 
aflundi wrote:
Mostly because I see what most people do (and I used to do before I figured it out) -- setting ISO first -- as a backwards holdover from film days when than was the only way you could do it.
......


This is the misconception that flaws your thinking.
I don't think you do have it figured out.
Setting the ISO first, is NOT a backwards holdover from the film days.

It is because digital camera sensors exhibit less noise at base ISO settings.

Therefore thinking photographers set this first to the base setting available for their camera, and only change it when they run out of scope with their shutter and aperture settings.

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Jan 3, 2015 08:27:20   #
RodL Loc: Down Under
 
Sony NEX-7 in manual mode allows ISO to be set last

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Jan 3, 2015 08:32:20   #
aflundi Loc: Albuquerque, NM
 
Preachdude wrote:
It seems to me you're still clinging to the days of film.


You are being silly of course as film had a fixed ISO that was set first, not metered last.

Preachdude wrote:
There is another strategy that I suggest you consider. In this digital age, you can select the precise lens and shutter settings you need to use, and let the camera will select the *ideal* ISO for you in that situation.


It's not another strategy, but the same. Since the camera can't read your mind and know what you want to meter on, it's not possible for it to select the idea ISO. So when you can, you choose the exposure appropriate to what you trying to achieve, thereby not giving the camera a chance to screw up the exposure by metering off the wrong thing(s).

When the lighting is changing too fast for a person to keep up with or you are feeling lucky (or lazy) however, you set the camera to autoISO in manual mode. The camera won't choose the ideal ISO because it can't, but will almost certainly do a better job than a person can.

Preachdude wrote:
Why not set your preferred upper and lower limits for ISO and go from there?


If you've already set the aperture and shutter speed, you need to remove the limits as ISO is the only exposure variable. ISO limits are useful if you are in a non-manual (P,A,S or other auto) mode where there are other variables.

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