CatMarley Loc: North Carolina

All dangerous animals? More people are killed in horse accidents than by dogs. Ban horses. Elephants have killed a few people too. They certainly are unnecessary! No zoos, they are full of dangerous animals. Eliminate all dangerous animals but keep the dangerous people who use these animals roaming the streets. Eliminate the tools but keep the users and abusers of the tools because they have civil rights. (well, very limited civil rights)

Yes and taken to its ultimate conclusion that is a totalitarian utopia. Restrict everything that anyone thinks may be harmful, ban caloric foods so people won't get fat and cost the society money, because we are on socialized medicine, ban everything (except what our political money contributors manufacture). Regiment every aspect of life so that nobody gets hurt. But guess what? Ban guns, and violent people will kill with knives or rocks or hammers. Ban pit bulls and bad people will invent some other agent to do harm for entertainment. Ban guns but do nothing about the crazy people whom we have evicted from the institutions that used to care for them, that push people off subway platforms, or hack them with axes, because they steal guns and kill schoolkids.

Foolish people refuse to listen to the wisdom of the people who have gone before us. Human Nature has not changed.

"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment
by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
- Louis D. Brandeis


"False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand
real advantages for one imaginary or trifling
inconvenience that would take fire from men because
it burns, and water because one may drown in it.
The laws has no remedy for evils, except destruction."
- Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

Whether your figures are correct or not, riders of horses have a choice and know the risks. Sadly wild animals are securely caged in zoos. Children are not given any choice when confronted by a dangerous dog.
Your reply is altogether negative - you have no positive answer, except to do nothing (which does not include your own responsible attitude - which unfortunately many do not share).
Certainly you gain no pluses in quoting Beccaria's writing from 250 years ago. My solution was humane and with a foreseeable positive result. You are rejecting my solution without suggesting an alternative. You are also hiding the issue under a blanket of hypotheses. IMHO

CatMarley Loc: North Carolina

I believe the hypotheses are yours. You believe that banning "pit bulls" will prevent injury to a hypothetical few children. And we would need a whole lot of laws to accomplish that. Laws on the books are already in place - leash laws etc. But you believe we need MORE laws. Beware of the encroachment of laws. They are the enemy of Liberty and have many unintended consequences. Becceria was citing an immutable truth, that laws can only destroy, they do not create. This will not change so long as mankind inhabits this planet. You are the man "of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding".

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence -- it is
force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and fearful
master."
George Washington

"They that can give up an essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759.

"An elective despotism was not the government we fought for.
The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground. "
-Thomas Jefferson

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

Such quotes from history leave me cold. Our population is now 20 plus times as large. We live so close to each other that we need very different rules to survive along side each other. I'm not suggesting that is good - I'm suggesting that laws and rules change to meet new social demands.
Leash laws have not stopped children dying in the Jaws of Dogs. A problem that needs a positive answer. I provided a logical and thoroughly humane answer. You have rejected it. Please therefore provide your alternative answer.

tlbuljac Loc: Oklahoma

GEEZ....this has carried on forever, why don't you two split the bill and get a room at the local Holiday Inn to resolve your differences more privately. You just might discover that you each have something in common.

CatMarley Loc: North Carolina

OK. I agree there is no point in trying to educate when there is an idee fixe in operation!

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

Yes - it has gone on a bit - my apologies. I shall now switch the thread off and leave the ranters to rant on.

nicelifter Loc: erie,pa

i have a question for anyone that lives in the united states ..when i went for my house insurance they told me if i had any of the five bite dogs (german shepard,rottie,pitbull,and so on) they wouldnt insure me ..where do you find insurance ..they told me even if i had a water claim and they showed up at my house and i had any of the dogs the claim would be dropped and so would my insurance ..my friends who have any of theses dogs dont have insurance

tlbuljac Loc: Oklahoma

Insure the dogs

CatMarley Loc: North Carolina

You need to shop for insurance companies. My daughter had a Rotweiler and a Bullmastiff and no problem. The whole thing is unreasonable, because most dog bites are from mixed breeds. Those insurance companies might as well refuse to insure any home with a dog over 70 lbs because any large dog is just as likely to be dangerous as any other. It is how they are raised and managed that counts.

CatMarley Loc: North Carolina

I find it interesting that calling for the abolishment of and laws against a breed is thought to be reasonable, while calling for reason and citing facts is a "rant". Rather like labeling the tea party, which believes in Consitutional Government,"radical", while calling those who want to violate the Constitution and abolish a number of its Articles and Ammendments "reasonable".

tlbuljac Loc: Oklahoma

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Rabbott Loc: Grass Valley , California

actually, i DO know about them, yes, they can be cute , cudly dogs, but they can also turn without notice, and maul their owners,, or the owners family. it happened just today, someones pits got out, and killed several neighbor s dogs, and attacked some of the neighbors. no prococation, they weren't poodles, or cockers,, but pit bulls.

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

I'd given up on this thread but just clicked on it unintentionally.
Though you relate today's (yet another) terrible incident involving PBs, it will not sway Cat in her opinions. We used to have a lady in the UK with a similar disposition called Maggie Thatcher. There is a saying - "There are none so blind as those who will not see." Best wishes for Xmas D.

bluescreek Loc: N.C. Sandhills

I'd wager Margaret Thatcher (the Iron Lady) could see a helluva lot farther than you, you can find unfortunate incidents in all breeds.