dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia

Nice Shot!! Now you are getting in the spirit!!

On the other hand I have unwatched some of my own posts as well and for similar reasons.

Tracy B. Loc: Indiana

I'm also trying to decide between camera's, however this post has made me look other places. Good luck in your research.

Peekayoh Loc: UK

I have to say that I don't understand when frame rates are slated as a priority, shutter response definitely but not frame rates. The way I see it, in a fast action scenario let's say you're shooting at 1/1000 of a second at 10fps, that means you capture 10/1000 or 1/100th of a second of the action. Put another way it means you missed 99/100ths or 99% of the action. How can anyone expect to capture the decisive moment unless (s)he chooses when to trigger the shutter?

The EVF is top notch, I doubt there's a better one. Having said that and in view of your previous question, if you really intent to reel off 10,20,30 shots in a row, it may not be for you. I have no experience of this form of shooting, as you may have guessed, but some folk have difficulty following BIF at the high frame rate due to the way the EVF refreshes. Basically, you see the shot just taken whilst the Sensor clears for the next shot. You'd have to try this for yourself.

Not that bad but who cares anyway; carry a spare battery.

Well you ought to! I'm not saying that DxO should be the sole arbiter of choice because there are other things just as important but the numbers tell you something; in this case it tells you that, apart from extra pixels, the Canon Sensor has advanced very little in the last five years or so. Sony has Canon on the back foot with their Sensor technology and there is much more to come such as the "Stacked Sensor with Image Plane Phase Detection" and the "Active Pixel Colour sampling Sensor" to name but two.

Desert Gecko Loc: desert southwest, USA

That's because I don't take lightly my advice. To answer your questions, I must look for a couple of links to cite - I do not make claims I cannot substantiate.

For what it's worth, I got my new a77ii yesterday and had some time to play with it. It is even better than I anticipated, and I am ready to answer your questions if you are sincerely interested.

Meanwhile, when I pulled into my driveway this afternoon, camera by my side, there was a pair of doves perched on the kids' swingset. I slowly grabbed my camera and upped the ISO to 6400 to grab a jpeg-only, which I've attached (taken with the 18-135, btw). I wanted to go progressively higher, but they flew off. Noise at high ISO was my biggest concern with this camera, but this shot, straight from the camera, is better than ISO 800 or 1600 on the mark 1. I'll try to get more tomorrow or this weekend, really put this through the paces and compare it to the mark 1, but what I've done so far, I like (including a BIF that the focus grabbed instantly as I just pointed wildly).

ISO 6400 straight from camera

(Download)

Desert Gecko Loc: desert southwest, USA

And for what it’s worth, I did not set out to argue with anyone, but I will usually defend myself, childish or not, if I am attacked. SS made the first disparaging remarks about some sample photos I posted to demonstrate the DxO findings about color depth and dynamic range, and to support what I said about Minolta lenses and a77 focusing. I ignored him. He went on to attack me for a post not at all about him, even (purposely?) misconstruing a joke about my Canon-shooting friends (the Gecko, get ahold of yourself... post.) I should have let it go, but I did rebut his remarks without a personal attack. SS then kept at it, making personal jabs about my wits, which I will match against his any day.

I’ve been around the block with him before, and I’ve seen how he belittles others. Perhaps that is why I so “childishly” replied to him when I should have let it go so as to not alienate others. I apologize to all who had to endure my nonsense.

Rodbolt Loc: Western Colorado

I'm sincerely interested in honest firsthand experience. I've read all the specs that are on paper and I've spent too much time on Dxo.

I'm curious about the EVF. From what I've seen it works great but I'm concerned about a couple things. I've heard it doesn't work well with high frame rate action shots. It's hard to keep the subject in view as it doesn't refresh fast enough or something. Also, I saw in a review that when shooting you have to turn off the shot preview or the EVF will display that getting in the way of a follow up shot. This might make me crazy.

Lastly, does the old Minolta glass work with AF?


Incidentally, I agree that SS threw the first punch with an unnecessary remark. I'm just tired of reading through the pissing match.

Desert Gecko Loc: desert southwest, USA

Again, my apologies. I was out of line.

Four of the sample images I posted the other day I took with a Minolta 75-300 "new" AF under difficult shooting conditions. Not bad considering I picked it up for $69 less than a year ago (they're readily available for under $100.) Other than a little purple fringing on high contrast areas (correctable with a single Lightroom click), it is perfect. I have three Minolta lenses, two of which I use regularly and they work perfectly. Again, see www.dyxum.com for loads of info on Sony-mount lenses of all makes. Remember that with in-camera stabilization, old AF Minolta/Tokina/Sigma/Tamron glass works fine.

I seldom use the viewfinder because I wear glasses and it's a bit of a nuisance, so I usually use the screen. When I use it, though, I love that it's wysiwyg, using computer terms, or live view so you know what your shot will be before you shoot it. I honestly can't tell you about using the EVF with a high frame rate, but I'll add that to my list of tests to perform this weekend and I'll let you know. Weather permitting, I'll get out this weekend for a comparison of the mark i and ii, for personal satisfaction.

I was impressed with the noise of the ISO 6400 shot, thinking that it is comparable to ISO 800 or 1600 on the mark i. I think that is a huge improvement and was one of my main concerns. And if the single BIF (that's bird in flight, in case you didn't know) I took is any indication, the focus has improved a great deal over what was already decent (that's one of the links I was going to find before answering your other post of questions.)

Oh, and video is outstanding. You can't quite run with the camera like you see in COPS, but pretty close, and it maintains accurate autofocus throughout, a feat not matched by many cameras (not sure about the 70D). Oh, one more thing about the focus: The 7Dii adopted a phase detection system similar to the Sony's, allowing it to improve its AF abilities for stills and video, for a good reason - it's a good system.

I'll post more later, after I've had a chance to try a few things to prove for myself that which I've read.

Desert Gecko Loc: desert southwest, USA

Reed,
A couple more things came to mind as I'm reading the owner's manual for the mark ii to learn the new features and changes (wait 'til you see what this thing can do with tracking AF, truly remarkable!)

Here's the main advice for you on this post: Before I made my final decision on the a77 last year, I downloaded and read through the owner's manual of my top three choices, then went to a Best Buy and Costco to feel them up. I still think you should objectively consider several models, and TRACK YOUR RESEARCH RESULTS to make an informed decision. Though I am biased toward Sony, I didn't start out that way, but thought I'd end up in a Canon. I could easily live with a Canon 7Dii (but I'll never admit that to a certain dear friend of mine, a real Canon aficionado). The problem with the Canon is it costs twice what the a77ii does (for a comparable camera; it is indeterminate which might get the top spot)and there are no inexpensive, quality legacy lenses available, like the Minolta et al for Sony.

Nevertheless, your initial post reminded me much of myself when I was wading through the swamps of countless makes & models and all the stern opinions. You want to use a camera pretty much how I use mine, and if you want to keep something in the bank, this is a good way to get what you want. As SS said, when it comes down to it even a low-ranked sensor can capture a decent picture, but there is much more to the story - like focus, fps and ISO for action, color depth, IQ & dynamic range for landscapes, shooting modes that can be fun AND useful, HDR & versatile bracketing, and so much more.

Did you know that the a77ii body even allows you to set a focus range limit to increase focusing speed? Say you're at a volleyball game and all the action is at 60-80 feet. Set that range and the lens won't hunt beyond it (that's a feature found in pro lenses, but now built in to the a77ii.)

You can get the a77ii manual here: http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/model-home.pl?mdl=ILCA77M2&LOC=3#/manualsTab

You can google to find others, and that might help you decide if you are nearing a decision. Again, I'll do some testing this weekend, and I think I'll try the EVF with my glasses on at 12fps to see how it works. I'm pretty sure the image review would be disabled at high fps, but you can easily turn it off anyway and just touch the play button to see your last shot.

Enough for now. I gotta be on the road in six hours so I'd better get some sleep. I bet I know what I'll be dreaming about, hehe.

Rodbolt Loc: Western Colorado

I really like the looks of the K3 and actually started this search with Pentax due to my history. I guess I shied away due to the lackluster autofocus and lack of continuous focus in video. It sounds like the autofocus is much improved on the K3. The image quality is a no brainier. Comparable with Nikon/Sony and head and shoulders above Canon. Is continuous video focus that much of an asset on a DSLR? It's probably my primary stumbling block with Pentax. I love love their weather sealing and rugged build, especially for some of the country I cover in western CO and eastern UT. As far as Pentax glass I don't have anything worth mentioning but I need to hit my dad up to see if he has any old primes from his Pentax days (he bought me my first camera).

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Rod, 1, is NOT a good reason to get any camera! :lol:

2, first, I don't shoot video, yet, but I will.
Since video is always shot manual focus, you need a lot of dof if your subjects move at all, and it always resembles an old 8mm home movie.
Because the AF, stays on the subject, even amatuers can start to shoot video wide open and since you have AF it all stays within the dof CoC. That allows you to get creative and blow out backgrounds just like the movie makers do and isolate subjects just like in still photography. Most video is shot with wide-angle to get a lot of dof, but suddenly that's a thing if the past.
You can always wait a few years, I'm sure everybody will have AF, because as Canon goes, so goes the industry.
Is it important? Only you can answer that. Never was before, because it didn't exist. I don't know if the 70d has focus speed transition adjustment like the 7ll does. That is REALLY cool.
Don't get all hung up on all the wrong things! :lol:
SS

Rodbolt Loc: Western Colorado

Let me phrase that better. On the K3 I like the looks of the specs on it. IQ, frame rate, ISO rating and especially the stellar weather sealing and build quality.

Peekayoh Loc: UK

Yes, it does.

I guess you didn't read my previous post but I'll elaborate. With an OVF camera, as soon as the shutter closes after taking a shot, the mirror drops away and real time view is re-established until the Sensor read out is complete and the Shutter re-cocks. That can't happen with an EVF camera; when the shutter has closed after the shot, real time view cannot be re-established until after the Sensor has been read, the shutter re-cocked and the Sensor re-charged. That works at the lower speeds but at full drive speed, re-establishing live view is not possible (it would slow it down) so Sony chooses to display the last image taken during the "blank" period i.e. a slide show. From what I'm told, most users find it hard to maintain panning and therefore use slower speeds or use high speed in short bursts. If you read my previous post you will know why this is not from personal experience but is second hand.

I'm sure that Sony (and others) are addressing this issue and will crack it with a true Global Shutter but that's where we are at the moment and why Sports Photographers don't generally choose EVFs. It's immaterial if, like me, you employ "the decisive moment" method but that seems to be out of fashion or seen as too difficult.

Rodbolt Loc: Western Colorado

I did read your previous post, but this makes a little more sense I guess. I asked Gecko again as he personally has the camera in question. Burst shooting is a priority of mine as I have an 8 year daughter and a 10 year old son. We're talking karate, gymnastics, soccer, baseball, trampolines, bicycles, dirt bikes, atvs, sleds, rc cars, dogs etc. My world is one that moves these days!!! Not to mention, neither one likes to smile for the camera so I have to catch that too. The "decisive moment" method sounds much more civilized, but I'm not that accomplished of a photographer. Using friends' cameras and my iPhone 6 (is that allowed on here?) in burst mode I've been able to pick out some priceless shots in the midst of action that I would challenge the best photographer to predict and shoot at the "decisive moment". If I didn't have kids and didn't personally have a personal interest in motorsports I probably wouldn't care.

Thanks for the reply. I really think the EVF with all of its qualities and benefits might make me crazy

Desert Gecko Loc: desert southwest, USA

Having received my a77ii and done some testing/comparison with the a77i, I'll post a few shots to this dead thread for comparison.

Jpegs straight from camera with no post.

Vignetting caused by cheap ND.

baseline - a77i jpeg @ ISO 1600

(Download)

a77ii jpeg @ ISO 3200

(Download)

a77ii jpeg @ ISO 6400

(Download)

Rodbolt Loc: Western Colorado

Well after much deliberation, hours wasted on the Internet and a bunch of help from folks here on UHH I've decided on the Sony A77ii with the 16-50 f2.8 lens. Here's the kicker, I'm rolling the dice on my wife buying it for me for Christmas! I've been good most of the year and I think she knows I'll go out and order one on December 26th if she doesn't get me one. No pressure tho... Thanks for all of your help and input out there.