jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

I always thought of it this way: a camera has a computer. Just like a car, a microwave, and almost any other electronic device. If someone asks me what kind of computer I have, I'm not going to say, "Nikon D610.

Being precise with terminology is what makes communication precise.

Weatherbird Loc: East Lothian, Scotland

I do recall when in the UK there were tax incentives to buy computers. The question could therefore be more than academic. I think the definition of computer is up for grabs! For example is a calculator a computer? Is probably every digital camera which has software/hardware (an application?) to process JPEGS a computer?
I guess the Inland Revenue might disagree if there were a tax incentive when buying a computer!
The problem is the devil is in the definition and for what end. Try defining an elephant. We all know what an elephant is but it is harder to define one!
PS I am now out of this discussion.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

No, a calculator is not a computer.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/computer

pecohen Loc: Central Maine

Now you're making me feel really old. I once worked with a Control Data 160A. It had neither a printer nor a card reader.

It did have a tape drive attached to it but it didn't work yet. First we had to program it to be able to use the tape drive; that program we entered one bit at a time using push-button switches.

singleviking Loc: Lake Sebu Eco Park, Philippines

This definition may be too restrictive according to the definition given in Wikipedia. The "Enigma machine" used by the Germans for code encryption was a mechanical device and classified a computer, as was the "Cryptex" which was only a security locking device with mechanical code needed to unlock.

WIKIPEDIA DEFINITION:
A computer is a general purpose device that can be programmed to carry out a set of arithmetic or logical operations automatically. Since a sequence of operations can be readily changed, the computer can solve more than one kind of problem.

Conventionally, a computer consists of at least one processing element, typically a central processing unit (CPU), and some form of memory. The processing element carries out arithmetic and logic operations, and a sequencing and control unit can change the order of operations in response to stored information. Peripheral devices allow information to be retrieved from an external source, and the result of operations saved and retrieved.

In World War II, mechanical analog computers were used for specialized military applications. During this time the first electronic digital computers were developed. Originally they were the size of a large room, consuming as much power as several hundred modern personal computers (PCs).[1]

Jer Loc: Mesa, Arizona

Internal computers control the camera functions and sensors. It is drawing in and constantly gathering input and making decisions.

anotherview Loc: California

We should distinguish a computer, today, anyhow, as a processor of algorithms -- storage unnecessary. Wikpedia gives this description: "Conventionally, a computer consists of at least one processing element, typically a central processing unit (CPU), and some form of memory."

Strictly speaking, the CPU does the computing which in turn gives rise to the term "computer." The sequence of instructions for this computing carries the name "algorithm." Wikipedia defines an algorithm thus: "An algorithm is an effective method expressed as a finite list of well-defined instructions for calculating a function."

In fact, in computer science, every thing except memory (maybe) connecting to a CPU goes by the name of "device." Some would call memory for a CPU a device.

If one accepts this preliminary discussion, then doing so allows the description of, say, a microwave oven that incorporates a computer to run it as "a computer-controlled device." The same goes for a modern camera that functions by way of a computer.

More generally, a camera under computer control we should describe as an electro-mechanical device -- because its operation involves both electronics (including a computer) and mechanical moving parts.

So the answer to the OP's question is both, not one or the other.

Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM

"A computer generally means a programmable machine. The two principal characteristics of a computer are: it responds to a specific set of instructions in a well-defined manner and it can execute a prerecorded list of instructions (a program)."


Yes, a camera is a computer.

Drala2k Loc: Vermont

Camera a computer--no

Specialized computer processor in camera--yes.

anotherview Loc: California

Your assertion conflates two distinct terms, and its conclusion contains the implied assumption of part of the concern. Hence, your assertion remains non-analytic, and also unresponsive to the concern.

Further, the definition of a computer you use applies to the processor (CPU) that strictly speaking constitutes the computer, and not to the device it controls.

The loose use of the word "machine" here also lumps the CPU and the device it controls.

Try again.

Drala2k Loc: Vermont

True but the assumption here is that the camera is a computer. My point is that it is not, but it does contain a computer. A car contains a computer, but does that make it a computer? A jet fighter contains several computers, does that make the fighter a computer? I do not think that a electrical engineer would argue that these machines are computers, but that they do indeed contain computers as part of their design and function.

JD750 Loc: SoCal

Ahhh the good old days thank gosh they're gone.

Very interesting all the varied replies. I had a thought. I computer is a programmable infinite state machine, meaning it can accept a wide variety of programs that when run result in an almost infinite combination of possible states within the device. Purposed devices, such as a Nikon D610, a microwave oven, or a fighter plane, do not fit that definition. The computer can be used to model and define them all.

Waltm Loc: Fredericksburg, VA

Just to add to the confusion. A computer receives information, processes it and produces a result. I have been in the digital computer world since the days of vacuum tubes back in the late 50s, right up until I left the working world in 1992. Before the digital age, I worked with analog devices. Both types of systems fit the description of a computer. In fact. consider the abacus.

This discussion is useful because it gives us insight into how the world works.

singleviking Loc: Lake Sebu Eco Park, Philippines

If you think about this for a moment, what you call a CPU is actually a DSP (digital signal processor). To consider an item to be a "computer", it needs some input mechanism, a DPS or CPU or calculation mechanism, a series of operations to be performed (mechanical or electronic), and an output or completed task to be accomplished.

Since a camera uses the menu system as a program modification mechanism, the DSP then has a program which takes in the optical information accumulated by the sensor. It then also determining the active time for exposure and the bias level for the photocells of the sensor and accumulates this data, converts it to a serial data stream and either compresses that data or stores it.

Reproducing the picture does the same thing in reverse and displays the recompiled image on the LCD display.

So, if a computer needs an input device, a set program to execute, and a means to store and reproduce this data, the camera fully complies to all of the prerequisites to be classified a computer.

Call it "An Optical Data Processor" with reproductive capabilities if you want to, but it still comes under the category of "computer".

Your microwave however, unless it has the ability to sense foods cooking and the time till that food is cooked, it is still a simple machine even though new models use a silicon digital clock as it's timer.

The barrier in classifications from machine to computer for digital cameras and cellphones has been broken and these devices are full fledged computing devices and therefore the whole package can then be called a "computer".

JD750 Loc: SoCal

Good points. Counterpoint. I think a computer has to contain an arithmetic logic unit, whereas a DSP could simply be performing a limited set of instructions on limited data, such as a fast Fourier transform on a digital image.

Optical data processor is definitely what a DSLR does!

FYI my microwave has a temp sensor that can be plugged into the meat to provide feedback. What is really needed is a sensor that can detect the smell of cooked food. LOL.