JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

I agree. The way it works is, the better you get, the higher your standards become, and the lower the percentage you are happy with.

AuntPhil Loc: Ireland

To further fan the flames, just because a photographer can produce a technically accomplished image, the image they want to produce, doesn't mean their photographs are any good.

There's plenty of accomplished photographers producing landscapes, macros of flowers, piers jutting into ghostly water, photographs of the moon, well lit portraits of their children, etc. that simply don't stand out from the tens of thousands of other photographers doing the exact same thing.

I think this then goes back a little to the professional determination for a lot of photographers. The photographers producing technically accomplished photographs of children could stand to make a career out of photographing other people's children for money. The intended audience of those pictures will only be that family's relatives and friends. Surely this sets these photographers and their technically accomplished images apart from the photographers who will have a photobook published by a top photographic agency?

The reality is that photography is so diverse it becomes very hard to set out a general judgement on what is and isn't the "skill level of a photographer" or even answering "what is photography?" To judge a photographer and their photography you have to have some idea of the purpose of their photography. The photography world is host to such an array of purposes that comparing a commission based portrait photographer, to a fine art sales based photographer, to an arts body funded documentary photographer is often a losing battle.

amehta Loc: Boston

I agree, I should have said that the expert can produce the compelling image they want to produce.

AuntPhil Loc: Ireland

I don't think you were too far wrong in the first place. It does take a huge amount of ability to photograph something so it comes out how you envisage it coming out. But then there are other aspects such as can you envisage what a fast-paced, fleeting street moment will look like while you quickly alter your settings and snap that decisive moment? Do you know how to interact with young children so to get that elusive smile out of them? Do you know enough about meteorology, astronomy and light so you can go to that spot on the hills you've scoped out months previous but you need to wait for the right time of year, the right weather and the right light to get that perfect landscape.

Photography is multi-dimensional. I think it's very difficult to judge the skill of any photographer until they put a body of work down in front of you and say, "This is my photography." And even then they might be a photographer interested in multiple areas of photography. They might have their commercial child photography work that they take to pay the bills. They might have their landscape photography that they work on for big, once-off sales of huge prints. And they might have their street photography as part of their lifetime long commitment to documenting the changing cultures of their town.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

I had said on page one that it wasn't possible to put the three categories neatly into a box.
But I knew that we would try. I know that photography has no standards, so we just attach our own. When it comes to photography, I'm also a firm believer that purely technical knowledge will never win out over talent and creativity. That just knowing all the plays, rules and stats, a ball player will not make. Beginners are as capable of being paid to shoot as anyone, so being paid does not make you better. For me the categories are divided by talent not by money.

Beginner: A beginner is proficient with their equipment and has a good grasp of composition and quite capable of producing good work and being paid for it. Beginners would encompass up to 85% of all shooters.

Intermediate: Capable of going beyond merely technical. Understands that composition is king and is what is going to carry a photograph. Understands
artificial and natural light and capable of technically reproducing good work in any genre and be paid for it. This group consists of 10 % of shooters.

Advanced: This group consists those that are very talented and consistently produce creative and cutting edge work to which others aspire to. At this level I would not distinguish between those that want to shoot professionally and be called such, and those that do not.

Talent speaks much louder than titles and years. Fortunately digital can make the process easier, but it's not a shortcut. ;-)
SS

Zone-System-Grandpa Loc: Springfield, Ohio

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Waykee7, your response is spot on and your response demonstrates that you had given careful thought before responding.. Notably, it can be seen that you had only used the word "I" four times in three full paragraphs which demonstrates that you had devoted your full attention to the subject at hand verses wanting to shift the topic back to yourself. Your ability to separate the three categories given and, then, supplementing them by adding in your definition of a master ~ is telling about your abilities to distinguish shutter clickers from true artists.. When a person has the talent (talent cannot be taught) to truly see the world around them and to use a camera as a tool and a lens as if it were to be a paint brush in the hands of an old world master artist, will a person's works be worthy of high esteem.

msmith44

I think section 18 of the Alan Briot link at the bottom of your post is as good as any. You could draw the lines delineating the levels as follows: Beginner – level 1 - 2; intermediate – levels 3 -7; advanced 8-10.

I assume since you use that link you agree with Briot and his pyramid of stages in the growth of photographer to artist.

BTW: Your 500px portfolio puts you pretty much at the top of the pyramid.

James R. Kyle Loc: Saint Louis, Missouri (A Suburb of Ferguson)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

THERE!!! That's IT....

I too Agree... I was still trying to "fit" all of the facets of photography (ART) into three "boxes"... Physiologists do this to make a living from... I was having great turmoil in Just What to say...

However.. "SS" has spoke my mind for me.. THANK YOU, "SS"...

WoW! that's a load off my mind..... ;-)

redhogbill Loc: antelope, calif

you know! when this tread started I did not even know there was a triangle from 1 to 10 {explaining what each one was} I found I am a "1"
hell I'm on the list!!! I'm someone now!!!{it's better than the day I got my name in the phone book!!}

Whuff Loc: Marshalltown, Iowa

I'm sure that even the photos this particular photographer didn't use were pretty spectacular. I read once that the famous "Afghan Girl" photo that is so iconic was nearly tossed out but was included at the last minute.

Walt

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Whuff, I've never heard that and I'm a big McCurry fan. It would be hard to believe that a pic would go from the cutting room floor to the cover of Nat Geo, but anything is possible.
He does currently have a book out that tells the behind the scenes story of a lot of his pics. Maybe that is mentioned. I have not seen the book. ;-)
SS

Whuff Loc: Marshalltown, Iowa

Here's the story. http://petapixel.com/2013/10/22/steve-mccurry-reveals-afghan-girl-portrait-almost-published/
My memory of the details is not exactly perfect, but I knew it almost wasn't the cover.

Walt

Nightski

I love those eyes ... that image will always haunt my memories .. I thought she was one of the most beautiful women I had ever seen.

coolhoosier Loc: Dover, NH, USA

Close, but I'd change this to experience/dedication/equipment or, maybe, even dedication/experience/equipment. A professional keeps up with the equipment scene and has the gear to get the job done, and enough to ensure that lose of one or more components won't endanger and assignment.

Experience and dedication, in whichever order you prefer, are the keys. If you don't really understand your subject, you can't create an image that truly represents its character.

A dedicated photographer will get the needed experience and an experienced photographer is that way because of dedication (to photograph something).

frangeo Loc: Texas

WOW! Great shot. What difference does it make?