Neither of those lenses has a depth of field scale do they? Otherwise I would say pick an aperture and then focus on a point half way or so into the depth of field using manual focus.
mcmm wrote:
I have taken pictures in the gym before but what I find is that many times the kids up close are out of focus and I don't like how that looks. That is why I was wondering if I needed a different lens. We have a stage and where the kids' rows start is only about 5-6 ft. away and I can't go back any farther without getting on the stage and I'd rather be at eye level. The lighting (fluorescent) isn't great but most of the time I can keep my ISO at 800 or lower when they are on the gym floor. If they are on the stage that is another story.
I have taken pictures in the gym before but what I... (
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Hi McMM, Not a stupid question at all. In fact we ugly
hedge hoggers are as ignorant as other people, but we
(most of us) know photography pretty good.
What *program* do you shoot with? *auto* *tv* *av)*
*m* or some other program? It's important to know
so we can help you. Sorry I'm not of much help.
seeya
ronny
mcmm wrote:
I know you are all knowledgeable and I need your help with choosing the right lens. I am a teacher and take tons of pictures at school. Inside and out. Friday's we have a morning meeting with all of our students and we do a number of different activities and I try to take advantage of those times when we have all of the kids together. I have the Canon T3i and need some suggestions. I would like a lens that I can take pictures that will give me a good depth of field as well as sharp near and far and side to side so I get a large number of the kids in the pictures. Sorry for my lack of technical terms. I have the standard kit lens that came with my camera. Do I use it and just use f22 aperature with a higher ISO since the lighting isn't great or is there a lens that would work better for my gym situation. I hope I am not offending those of you that have "been there done that" when answering this question a million times.
I also have the Canon 24-70 f2.8 IS lens. Is this a better choice? If so what settings would you recommend with this lens.
I am envious of all of the knowledge everyone has on this site and was hesitant to ask because I didn't want to expose my lack of knowledge. But, I want to improve my photos and know this is the place to go and learn from the best.
Thanks in advance for your help.
I know you are all knowledgeable and I need your h... (
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mcmm wrote:
I have taken pictures in the gym before but what I find is that many times the kids up close are out of focus and I don't like how that looks. That is why I was wondering if I needed a different lens. We have a stage and where the kids' rows start is only about 5-6 ft. away and I can't go back any farther without getting on the stage and I'd rather be at eye level. The lighting (fluorescent) isn't great but most of the time I can keep my ISO at 800 or lower when they are on the gym floor. If they are on the stage that is another story.
I have taken pictures in the gym before but what I... (
show quote)
How high is the stage, how high are the bleachers, or how are the student rows arranged? I'm having a difficult time visualizing the scene. Is there a picture of your school online which includes a picture of the gym I could see? You can send me a private message if you do not want to post it publicly. Thanks.
I shoot in aperture mode.
davidheald1942 wrote:
Hi McMM, Not a stupid question at all. In fact we ugly
hedge hoggers are as ignorant as other people, but we
(most of us) know photography pretty good.
What *program* do you shoot with? *auto* *tv* *av)*
*m* or some other program? It's important to know
so we can help you. Sorry I'm not of much help.
seeya
ronny
Peterff
Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
mcmm wrote:
I shoot in aperture mode.
So, do you have an aperture number that you usually set?
The stage is probably four feet higher than the gym floor. We do have some windows on the north side and they have blinds which are closed most of the time. I will look through some pictures and see if I have a good example to post. I usually delete those like I am describing so I don't know if I saved any. The rows go across the narrow part of the basketball court. We have pull out bleachers but we don't use them because they are old and hard to pull in and out.
amehta wrote:
How high is the stage, how high are the bleachers, or how are the student rows arranged? I'm having a difficult time visualizing the scene. Is there a picture of your school online which includes a picture of the gym I could see? You can send me a private message if you do not want to post it publicly. Thanks.
When I want to focus on one or two students I use f2.8 usually. When I am trying to get more of the students in focus that seems to be when I am having problems. Those up close to me are in focus and I would like them to be. That is why I was asking about a different lens.
Peterff wrote:
So, do you have an aperture number that you usually set?
mcmm wrote:
The stage is probably four feet higher than the gym floor. We do have some windows on the north side and they have blinds which are closed most of the time. I will look through some pictures and see if I have a good example to post. I usually delete those like I am describing so I don't know if I saved any. The rows go across the narrow part of the basketball court. We have pull out bleachers but we don't use them because they are old and hard to pull in and out.
Are the rows chairs, or are the students sitting on the floor, or standing?
Kids sit on the floor. Many times we get them up to do different movement type activities. In those pictures I usually change the setting to Sports because I figure that is a better setting for when they are moving. I've tried TV and not had very good results at all. Not sure what I am doing wrong there. I know that the shutter is staying open to long but when I've tried to increase it I still don't have good results. Maybe I am not increasing it enough. Tried a couple of times to up the ISO but then the pictures were to grainy. Decided at that point to stick to one or two modes because I was getting confused on what I had tried. Everything moves to fast for me to take a notebook in and write down what I've tried. We only have about 20-30 minutes on those mornings so we move pretty fast from activity to activity.
amehta wrote:
Are the rows chairs, or are the students sitting on the floor, or standing?
OK, they sit on a flat floor, the stage is 4' high, just about right to shoot at a slight down angle if you sit on the edge of the stage and then have them all look in the direction of the camera and use aperture of f11 or f16 and focus on the row that is from 1/3 to 1/2 way into the depth of field. If the shutter speed is too slow at f11 or f16 use a fairly powerful external flash. (Could those blinds be opened to get in more ambient light? Or are they on the wrong side to light their faces?)
If they open the blinds the light would be on the right side of their faces.
To focus 1/3 to 1/2 way into the field do I need to leave my camera on single shot focus and use the center point to focus on someone at that distance?
Yes I could sit on the edge on the stage.
robertjerl wrote:
OK, they sit on a flat floor, the stage is 4' high, just about right to shoot at a slight down angle if you sit on the edge of the stage and then have them all look in the direction of the camera and use aperture of f11 or f16 and focus on the row that is from 1/3 to 1/2 way into the depth of field. If the shutter speed is too slow at f11 or f16 use a fairly powerful external flash. (Could those blinds be opened to get in more ambient light? Or are they on the wrong side to light their faces?)
OK, they sit on a flat floor, the stage is 4' high... (
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Peterff
Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
mcmm wrote:
When I want to focus on one or two students I use f2.8 usually. When I am trying to get more of the students in focus that seems to be when I am having problems. Those up close to me are in focus and I would like them to be. That is why I was asking about a different lens.
Forgive me, but I don't think that it is the lens, it is the way that you are using it. Have you done any research on depth of field and the relationship to aperture value (f-stop)?
Apologies if I have misunderstood, but I think you need to experiment with whatever lens you use with f/8, f/11, f/16 compared to f/2.8 or f/3.5 and see what you get.
As a more academic exercise you might want to Google the f/64 group and do a whole bunch of background reading.
Good luck.
Thanks for the suggestion. I will do some experimenting and see if I like the results better.
Peterff wrote:
Forgive me, but I don't think that it is the lens, it is the way that you are using it. Have you done any research on depth of field and the relationship to aperture value (f-stop)?
Apologies if I have misunderstood, but I think you need to experiment with whatever lens you use with f/8, f/11, f/16 compared to f/2.8 or f/3.5 and see what you get.
As a more academic exercise you might want to Google the f/64 group and do a whole bunch of background reading.
Good luck.
mcmm wrote:
Kids sit on the floor. Many times we get them up to do different movement type activities. In those pictures I usually change the setting to Sports because I figure that is a better setting for when they are moving. I've tried TV and not had very good results at all. Not sure what I am doing wrong there. I know that the shutter is staying open to long but when I've tried to increase it I still don't have good results. Maybe I am not increasing it enough. Tried a couple of times to up the ISO but then the pictures were to grainy. Decided at that point to stick to one or two modes because I was getting confused on what I had tried. Everything moves to fast for me to take a notebook in and write down what I've tried. We only have about 20-30 minutes on those mornings so we move pretty fast from activity to activity.
Kids sit on the floor. Many times we get them up ... (
show quote)
I agree with sticking with one or two modes. Even when I need to concentrate on the shutter speed, I use aperture priority since I'll probably have the lens wide open. It seems like you want ISO 400-800, f/8 or f/11, and 1/30s or faster shutter speed.
For the depth of field, look at
DOFMaster's DoF table to see how your T3i does at different focal lengths. At 24mm, focused at 10', the DoF at f/11 is about 5' to infinity, at f/8 it is about 6' to 50'. These are not really exact numbers, but they give a sense of what you are likely to get. Using 18mm and focusing at 10', f/5.6 basically gives you the DoF which you need. If the DoF range from the table is not conservative enough, use a smaller aperture by an extra stop or two. But you don't need to go to f/22, just focus on row 2 of 5/6.
While an external flash would be nice, I think the light falloff from the front row to the back row would be too noticeable.
You have recieved some very good advice ....... if you are taking setup class shots from about 15 feet away from the front.
But I am going to assume that is not the case.
I am going to assume that you are taking photos of the students in the stand watching basketball games, and that you are probably across the other side of the court.
In this case you will probably want a longer lens and you will still be able to get the required depth of field with your F/2.8 or F/4 and that a flash is not going to be any use to you.
I am going to suggest 70-100-200mm focal length, IS turned on (vibration reduction), F/2.8 to F/4, ISO 1600 and handheld will be fine.
If you put the numbers (your lens and camera) into a DOF calculator it will give you the numbers to work with for your depth of field.
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.htmlEDITI didn't read enough of the posts did i? :roll:
But the suggestion that I made may come in handy at some time, so I will leave it all there.
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