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American Exceptionalism?
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Jul 12, 2014 06:40:20   #
mikedidi46 Loc: WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
 
PURE b.s. MAYBE YOU SHOULD MOVE TO THOSE COUNTRY'S. Long lines for Medical attention, move disease than over here. Please leave the country.

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Jul 12, 2014 07:38:54   #
Iwantitall Loc: Chicago (south side)
 
phcaan wrote:
We could take up a collection to help the slinger to realize his dream, one way tickets are more affordable.


:thumbup: I'm in. Where do I send the check for our resident sleazeball?
Mike

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Jul 12, 2014 10:19:12   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
donrent wrote:
What a total BULL-SHITE article....

"American Exceptionalism? " - Never heard of the term untill this article of nonsense...

The ONLY thing I can possible agree on is #% - the other 9 ...

Other than that - pure bull schit !!!




Very typical of Don Rant to call something a vulgar term without supporting the judgment with anything of substance. If he never heard the term before, he does not read much, as "American Exceptionalism" has been coined close to 20 years ago. Then he adds that he only agree is "#% - the other 9 …" Although this is a vague statement, it does imply that precious little of the entire article is agreeable to him. The article was very heavily supported by facts. Perhaps Don Rant does not understand that his approval notwithstanding, facts remain what they are. Why does he keep embarrassing himself with such vapid posts?

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Jul 12, 2014 10:24:05   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
phcaan wrote:
Slinger, then why are you not there yet? You would apparently be much more content under a different system, perhaps a muslem country would meet with your approval.



This question is a non sequitur. Learning a new language and culture and making it in a country where one has no contacts or support is enough additional handicap to negate the advantages of living in other countries. Moreover, some manage to do very well for themselves despite the relatively limited opportunities of their native lands. Gnslngr may be one who succeeded. Finally, there are people patriotic enough to want to improve their native country, rather than flee from it.

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Jul 12, 2014 10:31:22   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
rayford2 wrote:
All of this doesn't take into consideration the demographics of any individual country. Useless statistical information.
If Europe is so great and intriguing to a person, there's no U.S. law I'm aware of that prohibits a lawful U.S. citizen to move there if they so desire.



The first two sentences are a tissue that broke its promise. There is no supporting information to follow. If the information is useless, Rayford2 certainly has not demonstrated it to be. As a matter of fact, since he can prove the facts in the article to be incorrect, he has thrust his foot very deep into his mouth, as his own post has no information at all, only his ex cathedra declaration of his opinion as fact.

The conclusion is a vacuous as the opening; a restatement of the exhortation to love it or leave it. There are other alternatives that make more sense:

1. for most people, there is more lost in the cost of moving to a foreign country than gained in the advantages of living there. That cost includes not just the cost of transporting one's self and possessions, but also of learning a new language, establishing contacts and a support system in an unknown land, and having diminished contacts with friends and relatives.

2. some are successful despite restrictions, and thus do not need to move.

3. others are patriotic enough to want to improve their country, which is why they criticize it in the first place.

It would really help if Rayford2 thought a bit before he wrote.

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Jul 12, 2014 10:52:18   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
CatMarley wrote:
So move to Europe. You can't compare. We have completely different racial makeup and immigrant makeup. Try comparing white and non white stats. And Europeans are still migrating to the USA Why? When we see people trying to get out of this country to somewhere else in a flimsy boat, then I will start to believe your B.S.



Another vacuous right invective. You have not shown anything Gnslgnr wrote to be "B.S." Your only pretense to refutation is invoking the racial differences between the US and the countries to which Gnslngr's article compares the US. That vague reference is but a propaganda ploy, as it explains nothing. Moreover, if the point were granted outright, it still does not explain most of the ways the US fails its people, including failure to provide universal health care coverage, adequate vacations, etc. In fact, much was left off that could have made the case even stronger, including failure to provide decent maternity leave, freedom from imprisonment for the profit of the private prison industry, and a free college education for those who are capable and willing to do the work. None of that, and much else in the article has anything to do with racial disparities. Finally, racial inequality is yet another failure, not an excuse for what the US has become. You dishonor yourself yet again, Professor Marley.

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Jul 12, 2014 10:55:33   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
CatMarley wrote:
Toward whoever authored that little essay. It is the usual America hater claptrap. I love my country. I have lived other places, I would not trade it for anything. Stop trying to "remake" my country. Those who don't like it should go somewhere else, and leave me and the others who love it to enjoy my country the way it is.


If you love your country, you should speak out against the ways it fails to serve its people as well as other advanced nations do. Your love apparently consists of an unexamined celebration of the status quo, except those elements of it that benefit ordinary people.

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Jul 12, 2014 11:34:48   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
"Prior to the American Revolution virtually ALL countries were run by Monarchs or rigid rulera with absolute power. The United States invented rule by the people. We invented freedom FROM government. That's exceptional!"

The United States did not invent rule by the people. The ancient Greeks had more popular participation in the government than the US did upon independence, or in 1787 with the promulgation of the Constitution. Medieval Venice also had democracy, as did a fair number of other polities around the world.

You also added "freedom from government." Whatever that is, you did not explain. As there is government in the US, and it restricts what people may do, it is anyone's guess what you meant.

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Jul 12, 2014 11:35:18   #
NewGuy
 
Gnslngr wrote:
From Alex Henderson, Alternet:

The term “American exceptionalism” is often tossed around by politicians. Neocons, far-right Christian fundamentalists and members of the Republican Party in particular seem to hate it when anyone dares to suggest that some aspects of European life are superior to how we do things. But facts are facts, and the reality is that in some respects, Europe is way ahead of the United States. From health care to civil liberties to sexual attitudes, one can make a strong case for “European exceptionalism.” That is not to say that Europe isn’t confronting some major challenges in 2014: neoliberal economic policies and brutal austerity measures are causing considerable misery in Greece, Spain and other countries. The unemployment rate in Spain, the fourth largest economy in the Eurozone, stands at a troubling 26%—although Germany, Switzerland, Denmark and Iceland have lower unemployment rates than the U.S. (5.1% in Germany, 3.1.% in Switzerland, 4.6% in Iceland, 4.2% in Denmark). But problems and all, Europe continues to be one of the most desirable parts of the world. And the U.S.—a country that is in serious decline both economically and in terms of civil liberties—needs to take a close look at some of the things that European countries are doing right.

Below are 10 examples of “European exceptionalism” and areas in which Europe is way ahead of the United States.

1. Lower Incarceration Rates

Benjamin Franklin famously said that those who are willing to sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither, and the U.S. is more dangerous than most of Europe (especially in terms of homicide) even though it is becoming more and more of a police state. The U.S. incarcerates, per capita, more people than any other country in the world: in 2012, the U.S.’ incarceration rate, according to the International Centre for Prison Studies, was 707 per 100,000 people compared to only 60 per 100,000 in Sweden, 72 per 100,000 in Norway, 78 per 100,000 in Germany, 75 per 100,000 in the Netherlands, 87 per 100,000 in Switzerland, 99 per 100,000 in Italy, 103 per 100,000 in France, and 144 per 100,000 in Spain. Certainly, the failed War on Drugs and the Prison/Industrial Complex are major factors in the U.S.’ appallingly high incarceration rate, and unless the U.S. seriously reforms its draconian drug laws, it will continue to lock up a lot more of its people than Europe.

2. Less Violent Crime Than the U.S.

Major European cities like Brussels, Paris, Berlin and Milan can be very bad for nonviolent petty crimes like pickpocketing. The tradeoff, however, is that much of Europe—especially Western Europe—tends to have a lot less violent crime than the United States. Research conducted by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime found that in 2012, the U.S. had a homicide rate of 4.8 per 100,000 people compared to only 0.3 per 100,000 in Iceland, 0.7 per 100,000 in Sweden, 0.8 per 100,000 in Denmark and Spain, 0.9 per 100,000 in Italy, Austria and the Netherlands, 1.0 per 100,000 in France, and 1.2 per 100,000 in Portugal and the Republic of Ireland. Russia, however, had a homicide rate of 9.2 per 100,000 that year, but overall, one is more likely to be murdered in the U.S. than in Europe.

3. Better Sex Education Programs, Healthier Sexual Attitudes

For decades, the Christian Right has been trying to convince Americans that social conservatism and abstinence-only sex education programs will reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases. The problem is that the exact opposite is true: European countries with comprehensive sex-ed programs and liberal sexual attitudes actually have lower rates of teen pregnancy and STDs. Looking at data provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the Guttmacher Institute, Advocates for Youth and other sources, one finds a lot more teen pregnancies in the U.S. than in Europe. Comprehensive sex-ed programs are the norm in Europe, where in 2008, there were teen birth rates of 5.3 per 1000 in the Netherlands, 4.3 per 1000 in Switzerland and 9.8 per 1000 in Germany compared to 41.5 per 1000 in the United States. In 2009, Germany had one-sixth the HIV/AIDS rate of the United States (0.1% of Germany’s adult population living with HIV or AIDS compared to 0.6% of the U.S. adult population), while the Netherlands had one-third the number of people living with HIV or AIDS that year (0.2% of the Netherlands’ population compared to 0.6% of the U.S.’ adult population).

4. Anti-GMO Movement Much More Widespread

Anti-GMO activists are fighting an uphill battle in the U.S., where the Monsanto Corporation (the leading provider of GMO seeds) has considerable lobbying power and poured a ton of money into defeating GMO labeling measures in California and Washington State. Some progress has been made on the anti-GMO front in the U.S.: in April, Vermont passed a law requiring that food products sold in that state be labeled if they contain GMO ingredients (Monsanto, not surprisingly, has been aggressively fighting the law). And GMO crops have been banned in Mendocino County, California. But in Europe, GMO restrictions are much more widespread. France, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Bulgaria, Hungary, Poland and Greece are among the countries that have either total or partial bans on GMOs. And in Italy, 16 of the country’s 20 regions have declared themselves to be GMO-free when it comes to agriculture.

5. Saner Approaches to Abortion

Logic never was the Christian Right’s strong point. The same far-right Christian fundamentalists who favor outlawing abortion and overturning the U.S. Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade decision of 1973 cannot grasp the fact that two of the things they bitterly oppose—contraception and comprehensive sex education programs—reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies and therefore, reduce the need for abortions. But in many European countries, most politicians are smart enough to share Bill Clinton’s view that abortion should be “safe, legal and rare.” And the ironic thing is that European countries that tend to be sexually liberal also tend to have lower abortion rates. The Guttmacher Institute has reported that Western Europe, factoring in different countries, has an average of 12 abortions per 1000 women compared to 19 per 1000 women in North America (Eastern Europe, according to Guttmacher, has much higher abortion rates than Western Europe). Guttmacher’s figures take into account Western Europe on the whole, although some countries in that part of the world have fallen below that 12 per 1000 average. For example, the UN has reported that in 2008, Switzerland (where abortion is legal during the first trimester) had an abortion rate of 6.4 per 1,000 women compared to 19.6 per 1000 women in the U.S. that year. And Guttmacher has reported that countries where abortion is illegal or greatly restricted tend to have higher abortion rates than countries where it is legal: back-alley abortions are common in Latin America and Africa.

Clearly, better sex education, easier access to birth control and universal healthcare are decreasing the number of abortions in Western Europe. So instead of harassing, threatening and terrorizing abortion providers, the Christian Right needs to examine the positive effects that sexually liberal attitudes are having in Switzerland and other European countries.

6. More Vacation Time

In 2013, a report by the Washington, DC-based Center for Economic and Policy Research (CEPR) showed how badly the U.S. lags behind Europe when it comes to paid vacation time. CEPR reported that 77% of private-sector companies in the U.S. voluntarily offered their employees at least some paid vacation time (with 21 days off being the average), but the U.S. has no federal law mandating any time off. And that’s quite a contrast to Europe: CEPR reported that government-mandated paid vacation time in Europe includes 35 days off in Austria, 31 days off in Italy and France, 34 days off in Germany and Spain, 30 days off in Belgium and 29 days off in the Republic of Ireland.

7. Universal Healthcare

The U.S. made a small step in the direction of universal healthcare when Congress passed the Affordable Care Act in 2010, but the U.S. is so backwards when it comes to health care that implementing even the modest reforms of the ACA (which doesn’t go far enough) has been an epic battle. Meanwhile, every developed country in Western Europe has universal health care, which is implemented in different ways in different countries. Some European countries have single-payer systems (the U.K. and Spain), while others have public/private systems (France, for example) and others have systems that are essentially private and have employer-based insurance but force insurance companies to adhere to tough and strict government regulations. A 2014 article in The Atlantic reported that with Obamacare, the U.S.’ health care system may end up looking more like Germany’s—which reporter Olga Khazan described as “multi-payer, compulsory, employer-based, highly regulated, and fee-for-service.” But health care reform still has a long way to go in the U.S., where giant insurance companies call the shots and medical bankruptcies continue to be much more common than they are in Europe.

8.Greater Life Expectancy

Easier, more affordable access to quality health care is one of the things that can increase life expectancy, and in much of Western Europe, people are outliving Americans. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), overall life expectancy (factoring in both genders) in the U.S. is 79 compared to 83 in Switzerland (85 for women, 81 for men), 82 in Italy, Sweden, France, Spain, Iceland and Luxembourg, 81 in Norway, Austria, the Netherlands, Germany, Finland and the Republic of Ireland, and 80 in Malta, the U.K., Belgium, Portugal and Slovenia. It should be noted that in some of the poorer parts of the U.S., life expectancy is well below the WHO’s 79 average and is comparable to what one finds in Third World countries: in 2013, a report by the Institute of Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington found that life expectancy for males was only 63.9 in McDowell County, West Virginia and 66.7 in Tunica County, Mississippi. So in McDowell County, the average male dies 18 years younger than the average male in Switzerland.

9. Mass Transit Systems

For the vast majority of Americans, living without a car is impractical. Public transportation is woefully inadequate in most parts of the U.S., and only a handful of American cities make it easy to be without a car (among them: New York City, Chicago, Philadelphia and Boston). But even in those places, a car becomes a necessity in the surrounding suburbs. Europe, however, has some of the best, most extensive public transportation systems in the world. From London to Rome to Paris to Barcelona, mass transit is a way of life for millions of Europeans. And there are many advantages to that: less congestion, reduced air pollution, health benefits (walking is great exercise), a vibrant street scene/sidewalk culture and more productivity in the workplace (getting to and from work is easier when the busses and trains are convenient and run frequently). Plus, making it easier for people to be without a car reduces the number of DUIs.

10. Europeans More Likely to Speak Foreign Languages

Barack Obama offended a lot of xenophobic Republicans when, during his 2008 presidential campaign, he noted that the U.S. lagged way behind Europe when it came to proficiency in a second or third language, but Obama was right—and in 2012, a European Commission report on foreign-language study in the European Union (EU) found that “on average, in 2009/2010, 60.8% of lower secondary education students were learning two or more foreign languages—an increase of 14.1% compared to 2004-2005. During the same period, the proportion of primary education pupils not learning a foreign language fell from 32.5% to 21.8%.” The report found that in the EU, foreign-language study often began as early as six to nine years of age, which is quite a contrast to the U.S.—where foreign-language study is a rarity at the elementary school level and isn’t nearly as common as it should be at the middle school or high school levels.
From Alex Henderson, Alternet: br br The term “Am... (show quote)


Stop confusing the discussion by introducting facts! Are you new to this forum?

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Jul 12, 2014 12:26:50   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
bull drink water wrote:
when we get all bent out of shape and push a " love it or leave it" position, we miss the point. there are things that are really wrong here , that older countrys are doing better with. the better attitude would be," love it, and if needed, fix it".


! Nobody said that the US is perfect. 2- Nobody said that things are just peachy here. 3- If the US is such a rotten place and that Europe is so much better how come there are 30 million people here that are illegal. $ There are not 90,000 people who are crossing borders illegaly in any other country, 5, how much aid does the US get fron european countries.. 6 How many European Countries armies stajnd guard to protect the US. 7 you can go from state here without a passport, try that when you go fron Spain to France. 8 when 1 american accidently crosses in to Mexico he spends monthe in jail, but when Mexicans come here illegally the President promises citizenship. 9. How come the average poor person in the US lives in more square footage of living space than the average european. Not a poor european but the AVERAGE european. 10, with all it's faults I still wouldn't live anywhere else (btw I have enough funds to live anywhere I choose)

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Jul 12, 2014 12:30:16   #
TeeKay
 
Wow what a hornet's nest.
Can we take it that 'freedom from government' means no government. Another name for that is anarchy.

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Jul 12, 2014 12:39:46   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
Gunner,

The ten points simply reflect a political set of dogmas and beliefs which you agree with. Bully taw.

Having spent a lot of time in Europe, western in particular, I will point out that the U.S. is less homogenous than any European country by a magnitude (think Switzerland). The more homogenous an area is, the less aberrant the behavior tends to be (check your sociology books on this one).

Also, we are much, much more free here in the U.S. than in Europe (try railing out to loudly against a person in, say, England, and watch how quickly you are jailed or sued). Yes, this freedom has a price, but we and those before us paid that price because A) it's worth it, and B) it is a major reason of why we are no longer a simple colony.

Anyone who really believes these ten items, such as more vacation time, make Europe better should really do themselves a favor and move there. Really, you deserve it. Why settle for what you believe is a subpar life when you have it in your power to change it?

Oh, I think I get it now....... You are waiting for the government to take charge and change it for you. And since you know best have the same government change it for all the rest of us!!!

You know what that makes you, right?

:)

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Jul 12, 2014 12:53:39   #
Gnslngr
 
Cykdelic wrote:
Gunner,

The ten points simply reflect a political set of dogmas and beliefs which you agree with. Bully taw.

Having spent a lot of time in Europe, western in particular, I will point out that the U.S. is less homogenous than any European country by a magnitude (think Switzerland). The more homogenous an area is, the less aberrant the behavior tends to be (check your sociology books on this one).

Also, we are much, much more free here in the U.S. than in Europe (try railing out to loudly against a person in, say, England, and watch how quickly you are jailed or sued). Yes, this freedom has a price, but we and those before us paid that price because A) it's worth it, and B) it is a major reason of why we are no longer a simple colony.

Anyone who really believes these ten items, such as more vacation time, make Europe better should really do themselves a favor and move there. Really, you deserve it. Why settle for what you believe is a subpar life when you have it in your power to change it?

Oh, I think I get it now....... You are waiting for the government to take charge and change it for you. And since you know best have the same government change it for all the rest of us!!!

You know what that makes you, right?

:)
Gunner, br br The ten points simply reflect a pol... (show quote)


Every single one of your simplistic, childishly arrogant points have been adequately answered by PNagy, so I won't honor your moronic ramblings by repeating them.

You are the problem with America.

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Jul 12, 2014 13:44:50   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
Boberic: “Through the Marshall Plan we Liberated Europe rebuilt it and remade European democracies, And returned Japan and the rest of the Pacific to it's people and democratized them as well.”

Nagy: The Marshall Plan liberated Europe? That is news to me. Liberated Europe from whom or what? You seem to understand everything only through a sort of Fourth of July patriotism. There was nothing altruistic about the Marshall Plan. Its political purpose was to prevent Europeans from being seduced by internal communist subversion in order to keep the beneficiaries in the American orbit. This was for the general economic benefit of American companies, which was also served rather directly by the rules requiring Marshall Plan allotments to be spent on American providers.

You indulge in too much self congratulation over the US not directly running the governments of the conquered people, probably because like many conquerors, you do not understand the economics of direct rule. It is easier to rule through puppets, clients, and highly supervised governments. The US dictated much of the Japanese constitution, which hardly sounds like either popular sovereignty or democracy to me.

Boberic: “Britian ows it's soveranty to the US as well. If not for the US Europe 's national language would sstill be German.”

Nagy: Both of these statements are inconsistent with facts. Hitler’s Operation Sea Lion failed in 1940, long before the US was directly involved in the war. The second statement is a matter of speculation, so it is less demonstrably false. However, it is extremely unlikely that a Nazi empire would have survived Hitler. The Soviet Union, which is much larger than Germany, and capable of mustering far more manpower as well as industrial power, could maintain its own satellite empire for less than fifty years, and did not during that time wipe out local languages. How could a less stable German Empire accomplish that?

Boberic: “OH I forgot much of western Russia owes it's existance to the US as well. Thats Exceptional.”

Nagy: I have not read a single serious historian who agrees with you. The general consensus is that Lend-Lease enabled the Soviet Union to driveGerman troops all the way through Eastern Europe back into Germany, but that the Russians had the man and firepower to repulse the attack on their own land without any help.

Boberic: “There are many cemetarys filled with American dead Throughout europe who gave their lives so that europe could be free. That's exceptional. How many European cemetarys with their deaad so that we are free NONE thats exceptional.”

Nagy: American assistance did indeed help keep the French free of German or Soviet control, although that was not the intent. Our involvement in both wars was to prevent the rise of a powerful rival. As to freedom, that in Western Europe was balanced by the lack of freedom in Eastern Europe, which was made possible by the continued flow of Lend/Lease supplies for months after the Surrender of the Reich. This enabled the Soviets to consolidate their grip on the satellite empire, something they could not have done without the half million Studebaker trucks that replaced the horse and buggy Soviet logistical system.

Boberic: “Plaes donn't give me the crap that the French helped us out during the revolutionary war. The only reason why the French fougt in the revolution is to keep the british out.”

Nagy: This is a delicious double standard. You give the US credit for altruistic results it attained via selfish means, but flatly deny the same privilege to the French.

Boberic: “The french actually fought agianst the US previously. Ever hear of the French and Indian War.”

Nagy: Judging from your body of work as well as the way you write, and that of Gnslngr, there is no doubt that he has heard of the French and Indian War, but you need to read a bit more about it. It played out from 1756 to 1763, when there was no US.

Boberic: “At the end of WW2 themany of the German WW2 prisoners held in US prison camps in the US were treated so well that they decided to stay in the US and were accepted with generosity. That Exceptional.”

Nagy: Great point. However, American exceptionalism does not mean the US never did anything right, or very well. It means that instead of granting it certain status through common measures, it is declared superior by definition.

Boberic: “The US has Given mor relief to other countries when didasters occuir THatrs exceeptional.”

This is a false statement. Neither as a percentage of public or private charitable contributions does the US rank among the top ten countries in the world.

Boberic: “Yes we have made mistakes along the way that should not have happened and for the most part we have aknoledged them. So any time That anyone denies American Exceptionalism they should remember these and many more reasons wht The US is an Exceptional Nation. Any time that anyone of our citizens denies our exceptionalism he is perfecly free to leave
THATS EXCEPTIONAL Please my spelling errors. It's just that I get so pi$$ed off about this subject”

Nagy: Interesting. You refuted not a single reason why the article referenced by Gnslngr showed we are less than average in so many ways, but grasped mostly at glorified versions of our inglorious foreign policy in an attempt to show how exceptional we are. Then, you indirectly blamed Gnslngr for you shocking spelling errors; if he had not pissed you off so much, you would have written Pulitzer Prize-worthy material.

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Jul 12, 2014 13:53:12   #
GeorgeH Loc: Jonesboro, GA
 
user47602 wrote:
we used to be the good guys... now we're just thugs like the worst of them...

Gunslinger, great article... great for bunching up panties, as you can see.


I think the intent of the article was to suggest that a little humility would do our country some good. The jingoistic chants of "USA Number One!" could use some qualification.

Thanks for the post.

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