SteveR Loc: Michigan

Convoluted? Not at all, it is the reason for their action. The rest is your convoluted reasoning. Our country is a pluralistic society. The left, however, wants to eliminate that concept, and the rights that belief systems other than their own might have.

EdB

Here are a number of quick quotes that I got from another source regarding religion and government. I think it is clear that this is NOT a CHRISTIAN nation as many right wingers contend.

“If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
- George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia (1789)

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr (1787)

"In regard to religion, mutual toleration in the different professions thereof is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practiced, and both by precept and example inculcated on mankind.”
- Samuel Adams, The Rights of the Colonists (1771)

“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”
- Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man (1791)

“Congress has no power to make any religious establishments.”
- Roger Sherman, Congress (1789)

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack (1758)

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people build a wall of separation between Church & State."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Danbury Baptists (1802)

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."
- Thomas Paine, The American Crisis No. V (1776)
Note: You can read Paine's whole pamphlet, where he expresses his atheistic beliefs, here.

“Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.”
- Thomas Jefferson, A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom (1779)

"Christian establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."
- James Madison, letter to William Bradford, Jr. (1774)

"There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
- George Washington, address to Congress (1790)

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
- James Madison, General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia (1785)

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

It seems that not only do Steve and I disagree with your statement but that also the Supremes disagree with your statement. One does not give up all claims to constitutional freedoms simply because they enter into business. How would you feel if the government all of the sudden decided that the 4th did not apply to these businesses simply because they are viewed as non persons?

The larger point that no one seems to be talking about is that the court directed HHS to provide those drugs using different options that it has already demonstrated that it has at its disposal, so the women have lost nothing and nothing will be imposed on those women... This is mostly about the lefts outrage that the government can be held to our antiquated constitution that has no significance in modern America.. Your discomfort with the ruling I would suspect comes from somewhere else.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

So what does this have to do with the SCOTUS ruling, the first amendment, or RFRA?

marblclear Loc: Sacramento CA

Oh, my god, you are such an a..hole! Yep, that's the best I can do right now!

SteveR Loc: Michigan

I think what Blurry is saying is that we don't see where any of these are applicable in this case. Spouting quotes that you've pulled from some unknown source related to religion and government isn't that impressive. Neither is your grasp of the language.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Why would you say this? The Hobby Lobby case was not about Christianity it was about the exercise of religious freedom and the RFRA law and its application to the federal government. So when I question what that post has to do with that case what I get from you is your calling me an asshole. If you can't keep up with an adult conversation then maybe you should not converse with adults.

marblclear Loc: Sacramento CA

Oh, never mind.

wlgoode Loc: Globe, AZ

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

wlgoode Loc: Globe, AZ

Do you really think it isn't about Christianity? If it were a Muslim doctrine how do you think SCROTUS would rule?

PrairieSeasons Loc: Red River of the North

Since RFRA was basically brought about to protect Native American religious practices, I doubt that SCOTUS would rule any differently for any specific religion.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

You have to read the case... there are limitations as to what the court felt it could do in interpreting the RFRA law, this was a statutory case not a first amendment case. Now had they been Muslims asking for the same accommodation, then yes we should hope that the ruling would have been the same... I have never thought that the founders were strictly Christian, many were deitists which is quite a bit different than being Christian, that in my opinion is why we see the word Creator in the Declaration of Independence instead of the word "God".

Croce Loc: Earth

Blurry, I can remember when you had a head on your shoulders, lately however, it appears to have been relocated. You are mixing business and religion. I happen to disagree, as 4 of the justices did, with the decision. I stand by my statement: The employees did not seek employment with HL because they wanted pastoral guidance. They should not have to be concerned about their employers religious preferences. I think the decision was terribly erroneous and should never have been accepted as an issue of RFRA. Is the court going forward and moving toward sympathy for a theocracy? In favor of what religion? Who in hell knows. In my opinion if they could sit and come up with something as cockamayme as this ruling, nothing is beyond the realm of imagination.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Tell me how the employees of Hobby Lobby have been harmed by this decision. If you can do that then maybe we can have a conversation. I am afraid that you see implications in this ruling that do not exist. Please note that the court has affirmed the public interest in women receiving the benefit defined under HHS regulation, but they have put the onus back onto the government to find a less restrictive way to make that happen, if the women effected by this decision do not get those drugs it will only be because HHS chose not to do its job.

Personally I do not believe that as a small business owner that you give up your individual rights, I do not think that the government should have more control over something that you have worked your life to build than you do.... I have to wonder if this decision were on a constitutional guarantee other than religion if you would be taking the same stance....

From Kennedy's concurrence....

bygeorge Loc: Fl.<N.J.<Fl.

Don't tread on me,my religion,my freedom,and freedom from religion,or my freedom of choice as per. directed by you.