Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
From February 9 Circuit Court says it OK for a School to Ban the American Flag
Page <prev 2 of 2
Jun 23, 2014 20:29:58   #
Samuraiz Loc: Central Florida
 
In the event that the article was not completely read:

A federal court ruled Thursday that a northern California high school did not violate the constitutional rights of its students when school officials made them turn their American flag T-shirts inside out on Cinco de Mayo or be sent home due to fears of racial violence.

The three-judge panel unanimously decided the officialsÂ’ need to protect the safety of their students outweighed the studentsÂ’ freedom of expression rights.

Administrators at Live Oak High School, in the San Jose suburb of Morgan Hill, feared the American-flag shirts would enflame Latino students celebrating the Mexican holiday, and ordered the students to either turn the shirts inside out or go home for the day.

The school had a history of problems between white and Latino students on that day, and also had a documented history of violence between gang members and between racial groups. The court said these past problems gave school officials sufficient and justifiable reasons for their actions and that schools have wide latitude in curbing certain civil rights to ensure campus safety.

"Our role is not to second-guess the decision to have a Cinco de Mayo celebration or the precautions put in place to avoid violence," Judge M. Margaret McKeown wrote for the panel. The past events "made it reasonable for school officials to proceed as though the threat of a potentially violent disturbance was real,"


Check bold area. So, the school can unilateral determine what CIVIL RIGHTS are no longer applicable to your son or daughter at their discretion.

What part of civil rights do we not understand.

Also when did anthropologists create Mexican or Hispanic as a race. It is a culture not a race.

The U.S. Census Bureau defines the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino to refer to "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race.",[8] and states that Hispanics or Latinos can be of any race, any ancestry, any ethnicity.[9] Generically, this limits the definition of Hispanic or Latino to people from the Caribbean, Central and South America, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race, distinctly excluding all persons of Portuguese origin.

How about this, Your son is Black ans wears an Afro, the school decides that it causes an problem.

Your Son is gay and likes to wear pastels, the school decides that it causes an problem.


Are you all willing to trade you children's Civil rights because the community has gang problems that they refuse to address using law enforcement? Yes the article mentioned gangs.

Reply
Jun 23, 2014 20:37:35   #
idaholover Loc: Nampa ID
 
Samuraiz wrote:
That is a unique interpretation as well as your personal opinion. At no time in my life has any one said that a shirt with the image of the flag is disrespectful to the flag. At no time is showing patriotism disrespectful.

Having significant, even arrogant pride in your own country, it's constitution and it's freedoms is not Bigoted. It's National Pride.

One should never be ashamed of demonstrating respect for their Country or what it stands for.


If a facsimile of the flag is disrespectful then I guess many Olympic teams are guilty.

The USA has Military bases throughout Europe. Imagine if Germany, Italy or Japan asked their students to refrain from displaying their flag on July 4th? This is not going to happen.

The California School system said this was to avoid violence. Not wearing the flag would not affect whether a Non-Mexican would start an issue with a Mexican American. So I guess that "it is possible" that the violence came from the Mexican side.

It is important that all cultures receive total respect, however, it is not a good idea to disrespect your hosts. If this was Mexico I would agree with the court's ruling. however, this is nor Mexico. This is Still the USA where the Flag should be able to be displayed 24/7.
That is a unique interpretation as well as your pe... (show quote)


:thumbup:

Reply
Jun 24, 2014 08:46:48   #
willstaff Loc: Daytona Beach, Fl
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
Turning the flag into an item of clothing is disrespectful to the flag.

Mike


I take issue with only the part about turning the flag into an item of clothing being disrespectful.

Over the week of the 4th of July the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association will hold our annual reunion and you will see more American Flag shirts, hats, shorts, socks, etc. than you can imagine. You will also be hard pressed to find a more respectful group of men and their wives toward our flag than this group.

Reply
 
 
Jun 24, 2014 10:49:42   #
Ka2azman Loc: Tucson, Az
 
Samuraiz wrote:
That is a unique interpretation as well as your personal opinion. At no time in my life has any one said that a shirt with the image of the flag is disrespectful to the flag. At no time is showing patriotism disrespectful.

Having significant, even arrogant pride in your own country, it's constitution and it's freedoms is not Bigoted. It's National Pride.

One should never be ashamed of demonstrating respect for their Country or what it stands for.


If a facsimile of the flag is disrespectful then I guess many Olympic teams are guilty.

The USA has Military bases throughout Europe. Imagine if Germany, Italy or Japan asked their students to refrain from displaying their flag on July 4th? This is not going to happen.

The California School system said this was to avoid violence. Not wearing the flag would not affect whether a Non-Mexican would start an issue with a Mexican American. So I guess that "it is possible" that the violence came from the Mexican side.

It is important that all cultures receive total respect, however, it is not a good idea to disrespect your hosts. If this was Mexico I would agree with the court's ruling. however, this is nor Mexico. This is Still the USA where the Flag should be able to be displayed 24/7.
That is a unique interpretation as well as your pe... (show quote)


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Reply
Jun 24, 2014 10:58:04   #
Ka2azman Loc: Tucson, Az
 
willstaff wrote:
I take issue with only the part about turning the flag into an item of clothing being disrespectful.

Over the week of the 4th of July the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association will hold our annual reunion and you will see more American Flag shirts, hats, shorts, socks, etc. than you can imagine. You will also be hard pressed to find a more respectful group of men and their wives toward our flag than this group.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Reply
Jun 24, 2014 14:46:49   #
COI Jack Loc: Missouri
 
I think the school and the court were wrong, however I do find the flag depicted on an article of clothing to be disrespectful.
Years ago, there was an art exhibit at the Chicago Art Institute where a huge US flag was draped across the entrance. People were forced to walk on the flag to enter. This was protested by a lot of people, me included. I don't see much difference between shoe dirt and sweaty arm pits.
You have the right under the first amendment to free speech, and wearing the flag as clothing is covered by that, but I will never agree that it is appropriate

Reply
Jun 24, 2014 14:58:04   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
willstaff wrote:
I take issue with only the part about turning the flag into an item of clothing being disrespectful.

Over the week of the 4th of July the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association will hold our annual reunion and you will see more American Flag shirts, hats, shorts, socks, etc. than you can imagine. You will also be hard pressed to find a more respectful group of men and their wives toward our flag than this group.
It is not my opinion, it is from the Flag Code.

The Flag Code, which formalizes and unifies the traditional ways in which we give respect to the flag, also contains specific instructions on how the flag is not to be used. They are:

- The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. It is flown upside down only as a distress signal.

- The flag should not be used as a drapery, or for covering a speakers desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.

- The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard.

- The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.

- The flag should never have placed on it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind.

- The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
When the flag is lowered, no part of it should touch the ground or any other object; it should be received by waiting hands and arms. To store the flag it should be folded neatly and ceremoniously.

The flag should be cleaned and mended when necessary.

When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of our country, it should be destroyed by burning in a dignified manner.

Reply
 
 
Jun 24, 2014 15:14:48   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
Samuraiz wrote:
Also when did anthropologists create Mexican or Hispanic as a race. It is a culture not a race.
Anthropologists did not create the concept of "race" and it in fact has no scientific basis. Imagining that there are "races" is the foundation of racism, and it is relatively modern. As people of color were systematically colonized, enslaved, exploited murdered, and conquered by the European nations, the concept of "race" arose as a justification for those horrors. That is racism - a justification for abuse of people based on the idea that they are alien and inferior.

In more recent times, race is used to keep poor whites distracted and make them willing to defend and promote the interests of their bosses and overlords.

The use of the US flag as clothing on the 5th of May as a counter to people of Mexican heritage and ancestry celebrating that heritage and ancestry - akin to wearing the green on St. Patrick's day - is clearly a statement that says "we are real Americans and you are not." Why not wear the UK flag? Or the Italian flag? There was a time when people of Irish descent and Italian descent were not seen as "real Americans." Why wear the US flag on a day important to people of a different ancestry?

This is a misuse of the US flag, and is unpatriotic. It mocks and perverts the principles upon which the country was founded and degrades the flag.

Reply
Jun 25, 2014 00:31:26   #
Hal81 Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
 
That court should be flogged in the public square. Since when do they have the right to ban our flag from anywhere in our country? Where is the troll with his magic pen to over throw their law?

Reply
Jun 25, 2014 01:03:07   #
Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
Anthropologists did not create the concept of "race" and it in fact has no scientific basis. Imagining that there are "races" is the foundation of racism, and it is relatively modern. As people of color were systematically colonized, enslaved, exploited murdered, and conquered by the European nations, the concept of "race" arose as a justification for those horrors. That is racism - a justification for abuse of people based on the idea that they are alien and inferior.

In more recent times, race is used to keep poor whites distracted and make them willing to defend and promote the interests of their bosses and overlords.

The use of the US flag as clothing on the 5th of May as a counter to people of Mexican heritage and ancestry celebrating that heritage and ancestry - akin to wearing the green on St. Patrick's day - is clearly a statement that says "we are real Americans and you are not." Why not wear the UK flag? Or the Italian flag? There was a time when people of Irish descent and Italian descent were not seen as "real Americans." Why wear the US flag on a day important to people of a different ancestry?

This is a misuse of the US flag, and is unpatriotic. It mocks and perverts the principles upon which the country was founded and degrades the flag.
Anthropologists did not create the concept of &quo... (show quote)


People of other nationalities celebrating their heritage and ancestry have done so by displaying along with their national flag the American Flag with pride of being an American. The American Flag of course being foremost in display. The American flag should never take back seat to any other flag on display. The court was wrong.

Did you know that here in the United States that there were also Black slave owners? Yep! Blacks that owned blacks in the north... yep!

Reply
Jun 26, 2014 21:44:41   #
fantom Loc: Colorado
 
Samuraiz wrote:
Again, no tolerance for an honest mistake?

I did not know, nor is this practice reflected on any of the photography related pages, that posting a statement or possibly a question that was previously posted is clearly forbidden.


If that was the case, the general photography section would have at the very most, 5 pages.


Maybe you should remind the next person that asks, Raw or Jpg about this rule.


Quit encouraging that frustrated moron.
She has the brains of a sofa pillow and continually seeks attention with her dopey posts. Spare yourself the aggravation of dealing with nitwits.

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 2
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.