Resetting the standard on Minimum Wage
Jun 5, 2014 14:03:45 #
PNagy wrote:
SteveR: The move for a $15 dollar minimum wage, in... (show quote)
I failed to finish this post. Correction appears below.
SteveR: The move for a $15 dollar minimum wage, in order to give a "living wage" for those stuck in the most menial jobs for life is because individuals made the wrong choices in their lives. Whatever became of personal responsibility?
Nagy: Working in a particular place is irresponsible? Menial jobs should not pay enough to cover health care or other costs of living? Meanwhile the same corporations that cannot pay the workers these minimal needs are justified in paying the CEO more in one month than the worker makes in a lifetime? And you profess to be a Christian? Amazing.
SteveR: Didn't anybody tell these people that dropping out of school, getting high, and getting pregnant would lead to a life of poverty?
Nagy: Whether they became pregnant or not is irrelevant. If they work fulltime what is the reason for denying them the minimal benefits I listed?
SteveR: So now they're supposed to get bailed out for their poor decisions?
Nagy: Being paid enough to cover minimal needs is not being bailed out. Being bailed out is being handed trillions of dollars after bankrupting an industry.
SteveR: As the parent of two profoundly deaf children who grew up not only to obtain their B.S. degrees, but also Masters degrees.....I know that education is possible for anybody who perseveres.
Nagy: You did it, so everyone should. Brilliant reasoning, Steve, just like all your arguments about religion and god. Pete Gray became an outfield in the major leagues. He did it, even though he had only one arm, therefore everyone should be able to do the same.
Jun 5, 2014 14:06:57 #
"Put it this way, Nagy....I don't know of anybody dying from hunger, and I haven't seen anybody running around naked."
There are quite a few malnourished Americans, and starvation is not the only way poverty kills. Here it is lack of medical care. Before Obamacare 45,000 people died annually of treatable conditions that they could not afford to have treated. It appears that according to your allegedly high Christian morals that is just too bad for them.
There are quite a few malnourished Americans, and starvation is not the only way poverty kills. Here it is lack of medical care. Before Obamacare 45,000 people died annually of treatable conditions that they could not afford to have treated. It appears that according to your allegedly high Christian morals that is just too bad for them.
Jun 5, 2014 14:09:36 #
PNagy: No, if I hire one, and I might have to later this year, I will pay her/him at least $25 an hour.
Vomit: Sounds like skilled labor,will they be sweeping floors,doing menial labor?
Nagy: If they are skilled photographers I pay them $50 an hour. If they are unskilled I pay $25.
Moving is unskilled also. Last time I paid in money it was at the rate of $20 an hour. When I paid in kind it was much higher than that.
Vomit: Sounds like skilled labor,will they be sweeping floors,doing menial labor?
Nagy: If they are skilled photographers I pay them $50 an hour. If they are unskilled I pay $25.
Moving is unskilled also. Last time I paid in money it was at the rate of $20 an hour. When I paid in kind it was much higher than that.
Jun 5, 2014 14:12:42 #
PNagy: I do not have regular employees, but I hire assistants from time to time. I pay them $50 an hour. If they knew nothing at all, I would coach them up and pay them $25 an hour. The last time I had a college kid assist me in a move, I paid him $20 an hour;that was circa 2003. I never thought about what I could afford, but about paying fairly and even generously for any labor I hired. If I cannot make enough to pay fairly, perhaps I should not be in business. If I ask hired help to pay the cost of my business risk by being paid close to nothing, I should make it up to them by making them partners in the business.
Vomit: How do you report the taxes on these temp help people?Are you flying below their radar?No don't answer that, I understand how your operating.This explains your point of view.
Nagy: You wanted to know how much I pay when I need to hire an assistant, which I do as an independent contractor. You did this to pretend that I do not practice what I preach about paying. Instead of admitting that you were wrong, unless I abjectly lied about what I pay, you now shift to aspects of my business that are utterly irrelevant to the discussion. You have no intellectual integrity.
Vomit: How do you report the taxes on these temp help people?Are you flying below their radar?No don't answer that, I understand how your operating.This explains your point of view.
Nagy: You wanted to know how much I pay when I need to hire an assistant, which I do as an independent contractor. You did this to pretend that I do not practice what I preach about paying. Instead of admitting that you were wrong, unless I abjectly lied about what I pay, you now shift to aspects of my business that are utterly irrelevant to the discussion. You have no intellectual integrity.
Jun 5, 2014 14:14:13 #
Vomit: How do you report the taxes on these temp help people?Are you flying below their radar?
Nagy: Come to think of it, I flew under the radar when I paid a college athlete to help me move over ten years ago. How is that relevant to what we are discussing, except as implied blackmail?
Nagy: Come to think of it, I flew under the radar when I paid a college athlete to help me move over ten years ago. How is that relevant to what we are discussing, except as implied blackmail?
Jun 5, 2014 14:19:59 #
"OK....if there's no bad effects of raising the minimum wage let's raise it to $250 per hour. $250 would make everyone rich and we would be able to get rid of almost all welfare and social programs as no one would qualify based on low income."
Nagy: Your tactic is to take raising the minimum wage to a ridiculous extent, and pretend that proves raising it to a reasonable extent is harmful too. Accordingly, taking beta blockers cannot possibly be an effective way of relieving high blood pressure unless one could take the entire bottle without having a stroke.
Nagy: Your tactic is to take raising the minimum wage to a ridiculous extent, and pretend that proves raising it to a reasonable extent is harmful too. Accordingly, taking beta blockers cannot possibly be an effective way of relieving high blood pressure unless one could take the entire bottle without having a stroke.
Jun 5, 2014 14:27:14 #
The only way that I can respond to Nagy is that it should be the goal of every American to get out of a minimum pay job. I have a feeling that if $15 becomes minimum pay, many will become satisfied and it will become a motivation killer.
Jun 5, 2014 14:27:45 #
Vomit: You are categorically wrong.The cost of living will also rise and make the new base wage meaningless.
You should be championing better jobs,not better base wages.
Wake up.
Nagy: This is pure speculation. Raising the minimum wage does indeed have certain effects on the economy, but these must be weighed against one another in order to gauge their overall impact. For example, the cost of living will undoubtedly increase. That does not mean that the wage increase has been canceled out. As a matter of fact, logical reasoning, of which you are not capable, indicates that it should not, as the increased bottom end spending should stimulate the creation of additional goods and services. Still, even that is speculation.
In order to have an effective answer, you should have compared the median income of the nation against its expenses at the time the minimum wage increase came into effect against the same factors six months later. You have not done this, since it is so much easier for you to factspeak.
Please make my day again by blustering about how dare I have written what I did, you arrogant twit.
You should be championing better jobs,not better base wages.
Wake up.
Nagy: This is pure speculation. Raising the minimum wage does indeed have certain effects on the economy, but these must be weighed against one another in order to gauge their overall impact. For example, the cost of living will undoubtedly increase. That does not mean that the wage increase has been canceled out. As a matter of fact, logical reasoning, of which you are not capable, indicates that it should not, as the increased bottom end spending should stimulate the creation of additional goods and services. Still, even that is speculation.
In order to have an effective answer, you should have compared the median income of the nation against its expenses at the time the minimum wage increase came into effect against the same factors six months later. You have not done this, since it is so much easier for you to factspeak.
Please make my day again by blustering about how dare I have written what I did, you arrogant twit.
Jun 5, 2014 14:38:45 #
PNagy wrote:
Vomit: How do you report the taxes on these temp help people?Are you flying below their radar?
Nagy: Come to think of it, I flew under the radar when I paid a college athlete to help me move over ten years ago. How is that relevant to what we are discussing, except as implied blackmail?
Nagy: Come to think of it, I flew under the radar when I paid a college athlete to help me move over ten years ago. How is that relevant to what we are discussing, except as implied blackmail?
I knew you were a tax cheater.When you don't pay your taxes
you are ripping off everyone.Your a well spoken thief at best.
I see your not above childish name calling also.This speaks to your lack of character and integrity.
Jun 5, 2014 14:50:30 #
PNagy wrote:
Vomit: You are categorically wrong.The cost of liv... (show quote)
This is not speculation.It's basic economics.You have again overlooked the basic premise of the minimum wage.
It's not meant to be lived on.
It is an entry level wage for teenagers,laborers,fry cooks,wait staff,lawn mowers,cashier's...
The fact that teenagers are competing against college educated adults for frycook jobs at burger joints should wake you to the real problem.Your addressing a symptom,nothing more nothing less.
Your fight should be for better jobs and a robust economy.
Your name calling diminishes your position.
Jun 5, 2014 15:03:40 #
yhtomit...Why even converse with somebody who twists you name as Nagy does? Talk about insulting.
Jun 5, 2014 15:04:37 #
SteveR: The only way that I can respond to Nagy is that it should be the goal of every American to get out of a minimum pay job. I have a feeling that if $15 becomes minimum pay, many will become satisfied and it will become a motivation killer.
Nagy: Whatever the minimum wage, some will lack the means to make more. It is emotionally a struggle for some to go to work every day. Others may be good at what they do, but are exhausted by the effort, and have neither the money nor the energy to pursue better credentials. You, the great Christian, propose to let them suffer, including early death for many, but I, the agnostic, think that no one should be paid less than a living wage. Most will see a contradiction in this, I am sure you don't
Nagy: Whatever the minimum wage, some will lack the means to make more. It is emotionally a struggle for some to go to work every day. Others may be good at what they do, but are exhausted by the effort, and have neither the money nor the energy to pursue better credentials. You, the great Christian, propose to let them suffer, including early death for many, but I, the agnostic, think that no one should be paid less than a living wage. Most will see a contradiction in this, I am sure you don't
Jun 5, 2014 15:12:31 #
PNagy wrote:
SteveR: The only way that I can respond to Nagy is... (show quote)
The problem with your plan is that to reach the needs of the few you would give a living wage to all. Aren't there other welfare programs in place to reach the truly impoverished? You talk about these people, but who are they? Where are they? I don't know if they even exist.
Jun 5, 2014 15:31:28 #
SteveR wrote:
yhtomit...Why even converse with somebody who twists you name as Nagy does? Talk about insulting.
Because he is a smart person and a good read.
I enjoy his banter and the way he addresses all questions posed.He is unique on this forum.
Jun 6, 2014 03:15:03 #
PNagy wrote:
Are saying in a round about way that increasing the minimum wage will result in unemployment?
Quite possibly it will be the cause of greater unemployment among small business OWNERS. When a shop cannot sell its services for a sufficient profit to cover the overhead costs and provide a competitive return on the owners investment, the owner will likely cease operations. However, before ever getting to that point, the owner will first reduce overhead by reducing the number of employees, which are usually the largest component of overhead. A pretty good example of what happens when the overhead gets too bloated is the automobile industry fiasco we all just lived through. The only industry that does not have to contend with the unforgiving laws of the market place is government employment, and that's because the government has the ability to just raise more taxes.....that is until the taxpayers say "no more!" as has happened more then a few times in history.
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