New to the "D" in DSLR
May 31, 2014 13:01:00 #
One quick follow-up comment here - I have older Nikon and Pentax lens that mount to my Canon EOS cameras with an inexpensive non-glass adapter $15.00 and they focus to infinity just about right, plus I have replaced my viewing screen with a split image one so I can use those lens on occasion, especially the Nikon Micro lens for macro which I don't do all that much of but I have shorter and longer Nikon macro lens to supplement my Canon 100mm macro. I might also mention that one way around the pitfalls of trying to achieve focus with an old lens and no split screen viewing, one can use "Live View" and magnify an image usually 5 or 10 times and focus on an edge or line in that image which is probably a good replacement for having a split viewer. Again, good luck.
May 31, 2014 13:06:27 #
ABQjoe wrote:
That's easy, there's more Canon on the market because they've outsold Nikon for decades. Doesn't make Canon any better, just better marketers.
Fanboys. Sigh.
Fanboys. Sigh.
As I said, what are you basing your statement on? Do you have facts to support this or is this just your opinion?
May 31, 2014 13:11:25 #
I have a Canon mg2420 $49.99 at k-mart,
but was on sale for $39.99.
I have had three printers a
$100.oo Epson in 2002 dollars.
a $500.oo Epson
in 2004 dollars that an ex-gf gave me
for Christmas,
a Lexmark in 2006 dollars.
I didn't see a heck-of-a-lot of difference in any.
They all gave me good prints.
Thanks a lot for reading
ronny
PS, what are you asking for
a good body with a lens?
but was on sale for $39.99.
I have had three printers a
$100.oo Epson in 2002 dollars.
a $500.oo Epson
in 2004 dollars that an ex-gf gave me
for Christmas,
a Lexmark in 2006 dollars.
I didn't see a heck-of-a-lot of difference in any.
They all gave me good prints.
Thanks a lot for reading
ronny
PS, what are you asking for
a good body with a lens?
May 31, 2014 13:15:00 #
banjonut wrote:
To be fair, while the Nikon mount hasn't changed, only the higher end Nikon dslr's will couple the camera meter with manual focus lenses which then can be used in Aperture preferred and Manual modes and then only those lenses that are AI capable (post late '70's) or modified.No, your Canon lenses will not work. They changed the mount somewhere between when you packed up and now. However, most, if not all of your Nikon lenses will fit and work in manual, with a few exceptions. I wish I were an expert on this topic, but alas, am not. Nikon never switched their lens mount because they got it right the first time.
May 31, 2014 13:27:29 #
For you folks who are saying the old gear isn't worth anything, that would seem to depend on what "anything" is. At the very worst, one can donate the old equipment for a tax break if a person can use it. Before one gives advice that something is not worth anything, perhaps we should leave it up to each person to decide for themselves what "anything" is. People who think that giving away something that might be sold for $1000 amuse me with their financial ineptitude. Here's some just recently sold items on ebay that match some of what is listed in rkamantas' inventory: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=Canon+F1&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc
May 31, 2014 14:07:29 #
Greetings.
I have been through a similar journey to yourself in the last couple of years. Also, you will get a wide range of advice here and elsewhere, and some is much better informed than others. At the end of the day, you can only arm yourself with information and make the decision that suits you the best.
Of the comments made so far I agree with Gessman's detailed posts. You have asked many questions covering a lot of issues which is of course complex.
1) Choice of camera brand and body model
On camera models and brands you are actually in a pretty good place. You have some excellent old film equipment and some lenses, although I have not seen that you gave us a list. If you have the higher end old FL / FDn (bayonet type, not breach-lock typically) it may be worth adapting them to a new digital slr. More on this later.
As far as brand is concerned it really comes down to whether you have a preference for any personal reason. If not, now is a really good time to find what appeals to you most by doing research and most importantly by getting your hands on lots of different brands and models. Both Canon and Nikon would be excellent choices, but so are several of the other premium brands.
Choosing your future brand is really important, since it will guide most of your future investment in lenses and other accessories.
Next the choice between APS-C (crop frame) and FF (full-frame) will affect that future investment. At least with Canon, the APS-C lenses (EF-S) do not work with the full-frame bodies, but the full-frame lenses (EF) work with both.
Although this is an overly simplistic explanation, there is a rule of thumb that full-frame EF lenses behave like lenses with 1.6x the focal length on APS-C camera bodies. This is really an angle of view issue, but it is a big consideration with wide-angle lenses. So if you have an ultra-wide FDn 20mm lens, it would behave like a 32mm lens on say a Canon T5i, which is not quite as radical. You have stated that you have a limited budget / income, and full-frame equipment will cost a lot more than a good APS-C based system, while the quality of APS-C can still be very high.
In terms of brand choice I started with Canon (AE-1, then T90) and am now building up a system based on a T3i. I will upgrade the body eventually, but am buying lenses etc. with that in mind. I expect to stay with APS-C for the foreseeable future. My primary reason for staying with Canon was the consistency of user interface between the AE-1/T90 and the T3i, so the learning curve was comfortable for me.
My wife has an old Nikon FM2 which she loved. I gave her a used T2i and a couple of lenses for Christmas and she is delighted with it. She can use me for advice on all the complexity offered by modern DSLR's and also have access to my range of other lenses etc., by sticking to a common brand.
If you are wanting to keep your costs low on a camera body, in the Canon range a decent used T2i, used/new T3i, or a T5i would all serve you well for still photography. For video, the T5i, T4i, T3i and T2i are all capable, but the newer models have increasingly more sophisticated video functionality. You could go further upscale with Canon bodies, but for myself I am totally content with the functionality and build quality of the T3i for now. I use the battery grip, which in my opinion adds nicely to the heft and balance of the system.
Whether you go with Canon, Nikon, Sony or whatever, there are excellent options available, and you may still be able to use your old FD lenses.
2) FD lenses
You will find lots of commentary on this topic and much of it is based on ill-informed partial knowledge, or just personal opinion about the pros and cons of old manual focus glass. There is a small amount of really well informed knowledge out there if you dig for it. Gessman knows what he is talking about here. I also use adapted FD lenses on my T3i. Since I grew up with a manual system I am OK with using them on my digital system. It's pretty similar to using them on the AE-1 or T90, although I do miss the split screen view finder. However it is very important to bear in mind two important considerations:
i) Adapted FD manual lenses are not so much a replacement for auto-focus lenses as an ability to add the benefits of creative effects that certain lenses can deliver.
ii) You have to like manual focus lenses and be comfortable using them.
If you read the following you will find some useful information to help you evaluate the situation:
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-208230-1.html
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-184237-1.html
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-184606-1.html
iii) Printers
As with the advice of others, it is important to understand that printers are a vehicle for selling ink, and are frequently sold at prices close to cost or even lower. Many people recommend sticking with the pricy brand inks. Others manage ok with cheaper off-brand inks, but there are risks and trade-offs.
If you do decide to buy a printer there are again brand issues to be navigated. Epson is rated highly, I stuck with Canon. I had an old Canon Pixma IP4000 (letter size and below) that did a great job and lasted for close to 10 years before the print head died. I replaced it with a Canon Pixma Pro 9000 mark II which does an excellent job, up to 13" x 19", which I found brand new on ebay for $175. This had been part of a discount bundle where somebody got a great price on a camera, and sold off the printer on ebay. I think it is excellent, but the inks are not inexpensive, so I would think carefully given your comments about your income status.
The very best of luck, and I hope that my experience will be helpful as you make your decisions, whatever direction you choose to go in, or brand that you decide to settle on.
I have been through a similar journey to yourself in the last couple of years. Also, you will get a wide range of advice here and elsewhere, and some is much better informed than others. At the end of the day, you can only arm yourself with information and make the decision that suits you the best.
Of the comments made so far I agree with Gessman's detailed posts. You have asked many questions covering a lot of issues which is of course complex.
1) Choice of camera brand and body model
On camera models and brands you are actually in a pretty good place. You have some excellent old film equipment and some lenses, although I have not seen that you gave us a list. If you have the higher end old FL / FDn (bayonet type, not breach-lock typically) it may be worth adapting them to a new digital slr. More on this later.
As far as brand is concerned it really comes down to whether you have a preference for any personal reason. If not, now is a really good time to find what appeals to you most by doing research and most importantly by getting your hands on lots of different brands and models. Both Canon and Nikon would be excellent choices, but so are several of the other premium brands.
Choosing your future brand is really important, since it will guide most of your future investment in lenses and other accessories.
Next the choice between APS-C (crop frame) and FF (full-frame) will affect that future investment. At least with Canon, the APS-C lenses (EF-S) do not work with the full-frame bodies, but the full-frame lenses (EF) work with both.
Although this is an overly simplistic explanation, there is a rule of thumb that full-frame EF lenses behave like lenses with 1.6x the focal length on APS-C camera bodies. This is really an angle of view issue, but it is a big consideration with wide-angle lenses. So if you have an ultra-wide FDn 20mm lens, it would behave like a 32mm lens on say a Canon T5i, which is not quite as radical. You have stated that you have a limited budget / income, and full-frame equipment will cost a lot more than a good APS-C based system, while the quality of APS-C can still be very high.
In terms of brand choice I started with Canon (AE-1, then T90) and am now building up a system based on a T3i. I will upgrade the body eventually, but am buying lenses etc. with that in mind. I expect to stay with APS-C for the foreseeable future. My primary reason for staying with Canon was the consistency of user interface between the AE-1/T90 and the T3i, so the learning curve was comfortable for me.
My wife has an old Nikon FM2 which she loved. I gave her a used T2i and a couple of lenses for Christmas and she is delighted with it. She can use me for advice on all the complexity offered by modern DSLR's and also have access to my range of other lenses etc., by sticking to a common brand.
If you are wanting to keep your costs low on a camera body, in the Canon range a decent used T2i, used/new T3i, or a T5i would all serve you well for still photography. For video, the T5i, T4i, T3i and T2i are all capable, but the newer models have increasingly more sophisticated video functionality. You could go further upscale with Canon bodies, but for myself I am totally content with the functionality and build quality of the T3i for now. I use the battery grip, which in my opinion adds nicely to the heft and balance of the system.
Whether you go with Canon, Nikon, Sony or whatever, there are excellent options available, and you may still be able to use your old FD lenses.
2) FD lenses
You will find lots of commentary on this topic and much of it is based on ill-informed partial knowledge, or just personal opinion about the pros and cons of old manual focus glass. There is a small amount of really well informed knowledge out there if you dig for it. Gessman knows what he is talking about here. I also use adapted FD lenses on my T3i. Since I grew up with a manual system I am OK with using them on my digital system. It's pretty similar to using them on the AE-1 or T90, although I do miss the split screen view finder. However it is very important to bear in mind two important considerations:
i) Adapted FD manual lenses are not so much a replacement for auto-focus lenses as an ability to add the benefits of creative effects that certain lenses can deliver.
ii) You have to like manual focus lenses and be comfortable using them.
If you read the following you will find some useful information to help you evaluate the situation:
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-208230-1.html
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-184237-1.html
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-184606-1.html
iii) Printers
As with the advice of others, it is important to understand that printers are a vehicle for selling ink, and are frequently sold at prices close to cost or even lower. Many people recommend sticking with the pricy brand inks. Others manage ok with cheaper off-brand inks, but there are risks and trade-offs.
If you do decide to buy a printer there are again brand issues to be navigated. Epson is rated highly, I stuck with Canon. I had an old Canon Pixma IP4000 (letter size and below) that did a great job and lasted for close to 10 years before the print head died. I replaced it with a Canon Pixma Pro 9000 mark II which does an excellent job, up to 13" x 19", which I found brand new on ebay for $175. This had been part of a discount bundle where somebody got a great price on a camera, and sold off the printer on ebay. I think it is excellent, but the inks are not inexpensive, so I would think carefully given your comments about your income status.
The very best of luck, and I hope that my experience will be helpful as you make your decisions, whatever direction you choose to go in, or brand that you decide to settle on.
May 31, 2014 14:44:23 #
On lenses, you ask what to recommend. Once again, a subjective decision and this is my personal opinion.
With the T3i I upgraded my initial lenses which were the kit 18-55 IS II zoom and the 55-250 IS. My wife now has those and is happy for now. I bought excellent used lenses on ebay to replace them: the 18 -135 IS zoom and EF 70 -300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM which are both well reviewed for a collective cost of about $550.
I like wide angle stuff, so I bought the 10-22mm ef-s zoom (new and pricier) but I love that. I have the EF 50mm 1.8 II prime, but seldom use it.
Plus, I've mentioned other FL/FD manual lenses in my earlier post and links. I also got a new Vivitar (Samyang) 8mm manual fisheye on ebay for about $165 which I am having lots of fun with.
Don't know if that helps you, but that setup covers a lot of territory.
Good luck
With the T3i I upgraded my initial lenses which were the kit 18-55 IS II zoom and the 55-250 IS. My wife now has those and is happy for now. I bought excellent used lenses on ebay to replace them: the 18 -135 IS zoom and EF 70 -300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM which are both well reviewed for a collective cost of about $550.
I like wide angle stuff, so I bought the 10-22mm ef-s zoom (new and pricier) but I love that. I have the EF 50mm 1.8 II prime, but seldom use it.
Plus, I've mentioned other FL/FD manual lenses in my earlier post and links. I also got a new Vivitar (Samyang) 8mm manual fisheye on ebay for about $165 which I am having lots of fun with.
Don't know if that helps you, but that setup covers a lot of territory.
Good luck
Jun 1, 2014 00:15:46 #
ABQjoe wrote:
That's easy, there's more Canon on the market because they've outsold Nikon for decades. Doesn't make Canon any better, just better marketers.
Fanboys. Sigh.
Fanboys. Sigh.
And Nikon is (and has always been) considered a "pro" camera... when I bought my Maxxum 7xi my choices were basically Canon and Minolta. Nikon was for "pros" and out of my price range. At the time, Canon and Minolta were priced about the same - way below Nikon. A friend had a Canon - I didn't like the pictures she got out of it, so I bought my 7xi.
There's more Canon around that any other camera for the simply reason they've been around longer and were priced where the average person could afford them. Nikon for years catered to pros only and Minolta, the most innovative of the three, ironically didn't join the digital party soon enough and ended up getting left behind, and sold to Sony (who by the way, has held onto the "most innovative" title).
Jun 1, 2014 00:32:55 #
mickley
Loc: Schenectady NY
Jarring fact: Over time, you will probably spend more on ink and paper for the printer(s) than you did on film.
I've got way too many old Canon manual focus lenses and bodies, too. Eventually, though, even I "went digital". Times change, and so will your cameras, and you may be forced down the path, kicking and screaming, as was I.
I tinkered with lens adapters, but they can be cumbersome, a pain to use, and in many cases cost more than the lens is worth.
I think, however, that instead of the T5i, maybe a good used EOS60D might be a better bet for you. Same sensor (in effect), same lens set available, etc., but more control of in-camera functions. The EOS-60D has been replaced by the EOS-70D, and even new EOS-60D's are being discounted heavily.
Just a thought.
I've got way too many old Canon manual focus lenses and bodies, too. Eventually, though, even I "went digital". Times change, and so will your cameras, and you may be forced down the path, kicking and screaming, as was I.
I tinkered with lens adapters, but they can be cumbersome, a pain to use, and in many cases cost more than the lens is worth.
I think, however, that instead of the T5i, maybe a good used EOS60D might be a better bet for you. Same sensor (in effect), same lens set available, etc., but more control of in-camera functions. The EOS-60D has been replaced by the EOS-70D, and even new EOS-60D's are being discounted heavily.
Just a thought.
Jun 1, 2014 00:55:22 #
Per http://fstoppers.com/examining-fiscal-year-2012-sales-for-olympus-sony-nikon-and-canon
Olympus: Approximately $1.157 billion (down from $1.169 billion)
Sony: Approximately $10.584 billion (down from $12.986 billion)
Nikon: Approximately $5.8 billion (down from about $5.9 billion)
Canon: Approximately $14.06 billion (up from $13.12 billion)
But, what this data does not include, and which is published on the site is the percentage of the sales that was from cameras versus other company products. And how much importance can you attribute to quality? Well, research the sales of BMW, Mercedes, Lamborghini and Ferrari COMBINED to sales of Ford or Chevrolet. Or, for a less exotic comparison, compare Oreck to Hoover or Eureka. For a real argument, compare Apple to Microsort (but be sure to compare parallel divisions, not gross sales).
Olympus: Approximately $1.157 billion (down from $1.169 billion)
Sony: Approximately $10.584 billion (down from $12.986 billion)
Nikon: Approximately $5.8 billion (down from about $5.9 billion)
Canon: Approximately $14.06 billion (up from $13.12 billion)
But, what this data does not include, and which is published on the site is the percentage of the sales that was from cameras versus other company products. And how much importance can you attribute to quality? Well, research the sales of BMW, Mercedes, Lamborghini and Ferrari COMBINED to sales of Ford or Chevrolet. Or, for a less exotic comparison, compare Oreck to Hoover or Eureka. For a real argument, compare Apple to Microsort (but be sure to compare parallel divisions, not gross sales).
Jun 1, 2014 01:11:03 #
Cntry wrote:
...which by implication says that not only has Nikon been a "pro camera", but others have not, at least not in the same league.
That is a very questionable thesis. Nikon is good, but not the only pro-quality brand. Things change and are always subject to differing assessments depending upon the use cases.
More importantly what does this comment have to do with the original question?
It would be really nice if the brand-bigots drowned drinking their own bullshit.
If you consider yourself a professional with professional equipment then it would be nice if you would exhibit professional behavior.
As a professional (in another industry) that earns a living from objective analysis I suggest that *YOU* (Cntry) focus on constructive and objective input and insight.
If you object to me calling you out, I suggest you support your opinions with defensible and credible evidence to validate your thesis.
It is interesting that your justification for citing Nikon as superior to other brands is " A friend had a Canon - I didn't like the pictures she got out of it".
Could it be that you didn't know enough to appreciate her good work, or could it be that you don't make good choices in selecting your friends?
Could it be time to climb down off your high horse?
After all, what value did your post deliver other than stroking your own ego? Have you looked at Sony's market position as a company in recent years? Even though they finally have some good still photo technology through acquisition there is no guarantee that Sony is a safe long term investment as either a company or a technology provider.
Jeez, can we have some informed and objective sanity please?
cntry wrote:
And Nikon is (and has always been) considered a "pro" camera...
...which by implication says that not only has Nikon been a "pro camera", but others have not, at least not in the same league.
That is a very questionable thesis. Nikon is good, but not the only pro-quality brand. Things change and are always subject to differing assessments depending upon the use cases.
More importantly what does this comment have to do with the original question?
It would be really nice if the brand-bigots drowned drinking their own bullshit.
If you consider yourself a professional with professional equipment then it would be nice if you would exhibit professional behavior.
As a professional (in another industry) that earns a living from objective analysis I suggest that *YOU* (Cntry) focus on constructive and objective input and insight.
If you object to me calling you out, I suggest you support your opinions with defensible and credible evidence to validate your thesis.
It is interesting that your justification for citing Nikon as superior to other brands is " A friend had a Canon - I didn't like the pictures she got out of it".
Could it be that you didn't know enough to appreciate her good work, or could it be that you don't make good choices in selecting your friends?
Could it be time to climb down off your high horse?
After all, what value did your post deliver other than stroking your own ego? Have you looked at Sony's market position as a company in recent years? Even though they finally have some good still photo technology through acquisition there is no guarantee that Sony is a safe long term investment as either a company or a technology provider.
Jeez, can we have some informed and objective sanity please?
Jun 1, 2014 01:36:27 #
Peterff wrote:
Jeez, can we have some informed and objective sanity please?
Often, I have noticed on various forums (including and, maybe especially UHH) that a person will present arguments that can best be described as "grasping at straws." I am sorry to inform you that "informed and objective sanity" may not be our strongest attraction on this forum. 8-) 8-) 8-)
Jun 1, 2014 01:43:16 #
Peterff wrote:
Cntry wrote: br br br br ...which by implicatio... (show quote)
Somebody piss in your wheaties this morning or what?
I'm not a pro, never claimed to be...but neither are you, judging from your own description of a professional and this post.
Jun 1, 2014 18:10:44 #
Jun 1, 2014 18:23:59 #
rkamantas
Loc: Beverly Shores, Indiana
Gessman, Thanks for taking the time to answer some of my questions. You sound like a guy that has years of experience and much knowledge. I wish we could get together and talk sometime...maybe a cold beer or a warm cup of tea. You don't happen to live near Chicago by any chance? -R.Kamantas
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