ShakyShutter Loc: Arizona

Please take the lead "check6" it's trial by fire here today.

evandr Loc: Tooele, Utah

Agreed, the slit does not create the picture, the sensor does, it only has to present the available light to each individual pixel for a certain amount of time and it is important that the light level does not change until the curtains are finished doing their job; by that I mean both the intensity of the light via the light source “and” the motion of the light via the movement of the object.

I think it would be easier to stop thinking in terms of the whole sensor and start thinking in terms of the millions of individual pixel sensors each of which will be 100% exposed to the light for certain duration of time provided that there is any slit at all in the curtain. If the first pixel exposed is only 1/4000th of a second away from the last then the subject will, 99.99% of the time, be frozen without distortion.

evandr Loc: Tooele, Utah

True but flash speeds are much faster than that. It's the mechanics of the camera curtain VS the flash speed that stand in the way of a good shot, you could freeze the blades with a flash and the shutter speed in Bulb if the ambient light was low enough.

It appears that the OP was simply saying that if things are not set up correctly and the conditions are not right you will not get a good shot but made it sound like you could net get a good shot at 1/4000th in any case, thus "the big debate"

I agree with you, the subject can be made to "freeze" but two conditions have to exist:" First the motion has to be such that it will not progress further than a 1/4000th of a second shutter speed can capture it without motion blur, and second the light must be of constant intensity for the whole 1/4000th of a second.

Hiskid.58 Loc: Erie, PA

I think the OP meant that you really are not getting any more motion "freeze" from shutter speeds faster than the camera sync speed; because of the way the shutter system works. I disagree with that, but I can understand what he is saying. In all reality, because of the way the shutter works at speeds higher than sync, the image is technically distorted, but not enough that we can see it. The OP never mentioned flash and it's not part of his original topic.

check6 Loc: Redding, CA

Actually the OP does mention flash...and specifically says that its not the subject of this thread. :-)

This is not a discussion involving flash strobe our anything not natural.

evandr Loc: Tooele, Utah

I must clarify something here, the use of a strobe or any flash will not produce a good picture if it is too fast to allow the DSLR shutter to expose the entire sensor to it, I only meant to show that you can stop the action of an object spinning at extremely high speeds using flashed light. Capturing that moment in time certainly does require special procedures and sometime special equipment, such as HSS strobes, or certain procedures that do not necessitate fast curtain speeds.

Thankfully it is a rare circumstance that camera speeds faster than 1/750 of a second are required and far rarer beyond that so it is not something you need to be prepared to do on the fly; the bottom line is that such exposures take proper preparation and the right equipment. Keep in mind that the right equipment does not have to be exotic or particularly expensive, only available to one who knows how to use it. You CAN achieve sharp stop action at a 1/4000th of a second shutter speed on a DSLR if the conditions are right "with or without a flash".

BigD Loc: The LEFT Coast

Nope the OP asked if he is right or wrong, he is wrong. Apparently to explore beyond that extremely basic photographic fundamental is frowned upon so enjoy beating a dead horse.

In order to make this forum worth reading I would like to see topics that start a discussion and then use it as a spring board to expand on the issue being discussed. In this issue the OP asked a simple question and instead of fully exploring how to utilize fast shutters to stop motion we spent forty reply's arguing over why flash is in play. I assure you that I won't waste any more of my time if people don't want to learn from each other and simply want to posture and look smart.

Does a high speed shutter stop motion? REALLY??? I mean wow guys.

check6 Loc: Redding, CA

Its seems like everyone is oversimplifying the OP's original posting, primarily to reflect their own viewpoint or belief, and even to steer the discussion in a different direction.

I agree with you, that most people are on here to learn, and I too enjoy seeing a thread develop into higher levels of use and understanding. But at least acknowledge that this is not a black and white issue.

Can a high shutter speed stop action? Of course it can.

Will it stop all movement? Not without a strobe of some sort to freeze the action.

If you don't use a strobe, can a shutter alone always stop movement? No! (That makes the OP correct, not wrong, btw)

Should we now discuss using strobes not stop movement? If you'd like. And maybe explore how strobes stop motion. Is it really stopping the motion or are we really changing the entire exposure so that the sensor or film no longer sees the actual scene but instead reads that split second flash of light we have now recalibrated the sensor to be ready for. I think that's the reality. You can shoot in natural light and accept some blur, or use artificial light and freeze a moment in time...and usually remove everything else from the picture.

ShakyShutter Loc: Arizona

YES !!

BigD Loc: The LEFT Coast

I'll go one more round just to give it a try. The strobe absolutely does not stop anything. All a strobe does is provide an extremely high amount of light to allow the sensor to properly render the image. If you could turn on a light that was as bright and the same color as the flash at its zenith you could shoot away at 1/8000th. The problem with that is it would blind your subject and probably require lots of power to achieve. This is why we still have strobes when all those wonderful lights are available on Ebay for a few dollars.

People make a correlation between how a strobe works to freeze things to the human eye but that is not the same as how a camera works. Your eye has no shutter and is always on so it has WAY more dynamic Range than a camera. To a camera the Shutter captures one small blink of light and the faster it does it the less light is allowed to pass. So we simply need more light to allow a faster Shutter to "grab" a quicker sample of a scene.

So to stop motion with a DSLR's mechanical Shutter you need a fast Shutter Speed PERIOD. All that is required is sufficient light for a proper exposure. The use of a Flash is the most common and convenient way of obtaining that level of illumination without melting your subject or starting a fire from your billion candlepower floods. That is how the discussion found its way to HSS and now we are right back there again, reread strobes DO NOT STOP MOTION THE SHUTTER DOES!

ShakyShutter Loc: Arizona

You were good all the way through the third sentence.

How do you explain this shot since there was not shutter involved...?

BigD Loc: The LEFT Coast

It was using a Shutterless camera or an open Shutter in a dark room, a strobe for light, and a sound trigger. The strobes duration provided the timing for the exposure. Since we are talking about a DLSR's High Speed Shutter not ANY other system I am dead right, the Shutter does the stopping not the strobe. Gang if you went to Photography School you would know just how absolutely basic this argument is there isn't any gray area here. I'm kinda thinking we need some fundamentals of photography here to get everyone on the correct page. Cool shot by the way.

ShakyShutter Loc: Arizona

Again, correct in the first two sentences.

BigD Loc: The LEFT Coast

I've done this for clients before (its tough but the fun part is shooting rounds to get it right). I might not have explained it totally correctly but my point was when we are using the Shutter under normal conditions that is the component that exposes the Imaging Sensor to the photons reflecting off of the subject and the faster you do that the more motion you stop (like rain on a windshield gets faster as you drive) the photons from one split second are recorded and the ones that happen next are not. The faster you open and close that baby the more light you need. The more light you need the more you find a strobe to be the correct component for that job. I've done HSS motion stopping Sports Photography for twenty five years and the faster the Shutters have gotten the better job you can do at freezing fast stuff, really a simple thing. I was hoping to start a cool HSS discussion and I got a pile of "other" comments. Maybe I'll start a discussion about more advanced lighting and effects and see how much crap that starts :evil:

check6 Loc: Redding, CA

What I want to know is how did the bullet get out of that cartridge case without blowing up the apple in the first place?? :lol: