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Why Prime?
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Apr 17, 2014 09:03:35   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
amehta wrote:
It would have concerned me if you thought those were turkeys! :-)


me too - it would have meant that my body was taken over by an alien evil spirit and made me type those things. . .

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Apr 17, 2014 09:05:31   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
Gene51 wrote:
Another incorrect general statement. Macro lenses are special purpose lenses that deliberately long helical threads on their focusing mechanism to be able to be very precise with focusing. They are also engineered to be sharpest at or near their closest focusing distance. Many painfully sharp macros often perform poorly at distances beyond 30ft-50ft. And they autofocus very slowly. There is usually a tradeoff between focusing speed and focusing accuracy - basically you can have either but if you place a priority on accuracy, then the lens design provides for that. If you prioritize fast focusing, then the design criteria shifts towards shorter helicoids, a lens that requires only a short 90 to 120 degree rotation to go from closest focus to infinity, smaller number of moving elements to focus the lens, etc.

In general, macros make poor to average general purpose lenses.
Another incorrect general statement. Macro lenses ... (show quote)

I will agree with all you said , thanks for clarifying in depth what I didn't say.

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Apr 17, 2014 09:07:12   #
amehta Loc: Boston
 
Gene51 wrote:
me too - it would have meant that my body was taken over by an alien evil spirit and made me type those things. . .

:lol: :lol:

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Apr 17, 2014 09:10:29   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
rpavich wrote:
I will agree with all you said , thanks for clarifying in depth what I didn't say.



OK?

I would add that I have two macros - a 150 and a 180. One day I went out to take some shots of high schoolers playing lacrosse, thinking I had my 80-200 F2.8 in the bag. I didn't, I had the 180 macro. Well the best lens is generally the one you have with you, so I shot 300 or so images. This lens does not easily manually focus, you have to grab the focus ring and slide it forward to release it from the camera's focus drive, so manual focus on the fly was out of the question. It was a bright day, so I used a smaller lens opening - F8 to F11. I would say that about 250 or so had no focus errors, partly because of the greater dof with the smaller apertures. But, the images were a bit soft, and the backgrounds distracting. Otherwise, I got the images. I would not have had those issues with my 80-200.

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Apr 17, 2014 09:15:18   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
Gene51 wrote:
OK?


If you're confused...I meant that I made a general statement that has some truth to it but there were other, more specific factors to be considered...you brought them out well.

That's what I meant.

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Apr 17, 2014 09:15:27   #
Psergel Loc: New Mexico
 
So johnst1001a.....
There you have it in a nutshell :D

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Apr 17, 2014 09:15:58   #
Pete K Loc: Webster Township, Michigan
 
Gene51 wrote:
There are so many factors that make a lens desirable or not, and quite a few of these are not easily quantifiable. It's not only about AF speed, resolution and contrast. The $4000 58mm Zeiss Otus is a manual focus lens, and tests poorly. But there isn't a lens near the focal length that I would rather use - it is absolutely three-dimensional. You just can't measure that. The new $1700 58mm Nikon lens, also tests poorly due to its not being a flat field lens, but produces an image that is superior to the competition in that range. Each lens needs to be considered on its own merits, be it a prime or a zoom. I have seen some pretty awful prime lenses. In the Nikon stable there are these questionable efforts from the Nikon lens designers - all primes:

15mm F5.6
18mm F2.8
20mm F4
28mm F2.8
85mm F2
105mm F4
135mm F2
200mm F4
300mm F4 ED-IF (poor tripod collar causes lots of vibration)
300 F4.5
45mmF2.8 GN
200mm F5.6 micro nikkor

These are all primes that are/were borderline turkeys.
There are so many factors that make a lens desirab... (show quote)


:roll: Gene 51...
Attached are a few shots taken with a "border line turkey": Nikon 300/f4...
I'll Keep That Turkey....







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Apr 17, 2014 09:19:14   #
Basil Loc: New Mexico
 
OddJobber wrote:
To quote you from one week ago, " I know that in general Primes are better IQ, but since I'm not a professional I'm willing to give up a "little" IQ for more flexibility in more situations."

That says it all. Your choice.


Yes, that was what I said, but what do I know?! But since then I've been reading a lot of reviews and user comments about different lenses and I'm starting to get the sense that at some point maybe a good prime (or two?) isn't a bad idea. I'm not in any rush as it will be a while before I buy anything since I just recently bought the 24-105 "L" which has replaced the standard 28-135 "kit" as my main lens on the 7D. Now I'm just enjoying getting all the different opinions about the many options available.

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Apr 17, 2014 09:25:09   #
Basil Loc: New Mexico
 
Psergel wrote:


On the other hand, I think that today's high end zooms are so good they often come close enough to the primes to satisfy everyone but a purist and I hardly use my 100 anymore for anything other than portraits and macro.
(I am braced for the counter punches :) )


This gets to the heart of my question. I keep hearing people ( here and elsewhere) singing the praises of Prime lenses but then I'm hearing that with the newer zooms (like the "L" series looms) maybe the difference isn't really all that much?

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Apr 17, 2014 09:33:02   #
joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois
 
Basil wrote:
I currently have an EF-S 18-55, EF 28-135, EF 24-105 f4L IS and 70-200 f4L (non-IS).

I'm debating what my next lens will be. I've heard people the me to get a prime lens, by why? One I've been looking at reviews on is the Canon 100mm f2.8L IS Macro. What makes a prime a better choice than, say, a 24-105 "L" zoom that would be capable of the same FL? Is there really that much IQ difference?


Others have pretty much covered the differences which may or not be noticeable or important to you. It sounds to me that you have an itch that needs to be scratched.

Before you run off and buy another lens think about what you want to shoot that can't be covered with the lenses you have.

Everyone has preferences which may or not match yours. Don't just follow what others prefer, think it through.

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Apr 17, 2014 09:33:24   #
Marionsho Loc: Kansas
 
Pete K wrote:
:roll: Gene 51...
Attached are a few shots taken with a "border line turkey": Nikon 300/f4...
I'll Keep That Turkey....


Sweet. These are Borderline Amazing. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Apr 17, 2014 09:39:24   #
Psergel Loc: New Mexico
 
Basil wrote:
This gets to the heart of my question. I keep hearing people ( here and elsewhere) singing the praises of Prime lenses but then I'm hearing that with the newer zooms (like the "L" series looms) maybe the difference isn't really all that much?


I make no claim that this is a work of art. It is one of the first shots made with my 24-105 6D kit.
No attempt at optimizing anything really.
I had always been disappointed by my T3i and kit lenses ability to capture the detail in my dogs hair.
This blew me away.
On the other hand I am not a pro so my opinion on zoom vs prime is based only on what I've owned and used.
The results I saw from my T3i when I bought, first my 100 then my 70-300, also convinced me that, while the 100 might be better, the 70-300 was much more than good enough.
Attach those lenses to the 6D and....Frankly, I couldn't afford to look for "better"


(Download)

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Apr 17, 2014 09:39:49   #
Marionsho Loc: Kansas
 
Basil wrote:
I currently have an EF-S 18-55, EF 28-135, EF 24-105 f4L IS and 70-200 f4L (non-IS).

I'm debating what my next lens will be. I've heard people the me to get a prime lens, by why? One I've been looking at reviews on is the Canon 100mm f2.8L IS Macro. What makes a prime a better choice than, say, a 24-105 "L" zoom that would be capable of the same FL? Is there really that much IQ difference?


I would buy the 10-22mm Canon. I really enjoy mine. Looks like you need something wider, and the close ups are very good, to say the least. My next purchase will probably be the 100mm Macro. The IS would sure come in handy. Whatever you decide, enjoy. You sure got a lot of good answers to your question.

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Apr 17, 2014 09:44:54   #
Pete K Loc: Webster Township, Michigan
 
Marionsho wrote:
Sweet. These are Borderline Amazing. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:




:-) Thanks...

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Apr 17, 2014 09:58:01   #
Marionsho Loc: Kansas
 
Pete K wrote:
:-) Thanks...


You're welcome. Love the border around the second one.

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