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JPEG vs.RAW
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Mar 24, 2014 13:52:39   #
photoman022 Loc: Manchester CT USA
 
I would say yes if only for the ability to sharpen a photo in pp especially if you plan on printing them. The difference between a sharpened and unsharpened PRINTED photo is very discernible.

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Mar 24, 2014 13:56:18   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
Kuzano wrote:
Scott Kelby's observations are of no value in these threads.

While I respect the man for some of his information, and his digital image knowledge, he clearly can NOT be objective on this matter.

He makes a substantial living on RAW conversion seminars. He also owns, or at least started and has a vested interest in NAPP. The National Association of Photoshop Professionals.

This from Wikipedia:

"The National Association of Photoshop Professionals (NAPP) is a Kelby Media Group company founded by Scott Kelby and has more than 75,000 members worldwide. It is primarily for users of Adobe software including Photoshop as well as other programs like InDesign, Illustrator and Lightroom."

It is patently ludicrous to use his observations on any controversy about RAW vs. Jpeg. Which this thread has evolved into.

I have done counts and find threads about RAW vs. Jpeg occur on UHH about 70-80 times per year.

That's either a lot of forgone shooting, or post processing to argue a point that is quite clearly personal choice.
Scott Kelby's observations are of no value in thes... (show quote)


Excellent points. I just found out my doctor is not just a member of the AMA, but is actually on some of their committees!!!!! He clearly has a vested interest in some of what you have now convinced me must be absolute JUNK!!!!

I will never trust him again!!!

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Mar 24, 2014 15:39:02   #
coyotecall Loc: New Mexico
 
I've been shooting a Canon "dig" for many years now and have jumped from Raw to jpeg twice. I started with Raw, having been told (by "experts) that it contained more color information than jpeg...then a different set of experts said, "Don't bother, it doesn't make that much difference."....then.......etc. the tipping point for me is simply this, on my Canon Rebel the "A-Dep" (aperture dependent) setting is only available using Raw and that setting really helps with depth of field...getting feather def. on birds for example. So I'm back to Raw. A bit more tedious but much better results for what I'm doing. If all you want is a versatile point-and-shoot result then stick with jpeg, you will get great shots for what it can do and you won't have any extra post processing, or at least not much, otherwise go to Raw.

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Mar 24, 2014 15:51:08   #
Kuzano
 
dsmeltz wrote:
Excellent points. I just found out my doctor is not just a member of the AMA, but is actually on some of their committees!!!!! He clearly has a vested interest in some of what you have now convinced me must be absolute JUNK!!!!

I will never trust him again!!!


Yeah...!!!! Doesn't that just piss you off about doctors in general.

They're all about extending life as long as it only uses the practice of Allopathic medicine, and revolves around the uses of pharmaceuticals from drug companes. Notice I did not differentiate between prescription and non-prescription drugs.

Futherance of the AMA practices the the uppermost tenets of most physicians. Herbal medicine, Spiritual practices, and such outlandish practices as chiropractic, acupuncture and naturopathic practice are simply targets of the AMA and their membership.

Standard AMA practitioners hold first and foremost the rise of their own income. This is indicative financial enhancements of their professions, evidenced by the rising care in health costs.

There are more preventive methods available to retain and improve health, but rarely tendered by AMA and other organizational bodies.

Hence the Hypocritical Oath and the symbolism of the Serpents intertwined about the staff.

I am simply saying that Scott Kelby's observations are naturally self serving shown by his relationship with Adobe, just as most doctors are self serving based on their organizational bodies aim to increasing income for the profession and the drug companies.

My last urging from a physician was to control my cholesterol by taking Crestor in place of Simvastatin as the latter was not working well for me. The cost quote on a 30 day supply of Crestor was $593 (one month!) from on pharmacy and similar from others.

A naturopathic healer found a solution based on herbal supplements, change in diet and exercise. Cholestorol is now within suggested limits, and the supplements run about $20 per month. The diet turns out to be less expensive overall.

So when Scott Kelby divests himself of the NAPP connection, drops his prices to reasonable seminar rates, and becomes a reasonable force in the post processing marketplace... I will relent on his objectivity.

I've purchased some of his books and they are good. However, they are fodder leading into NAPP and the seminars.

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Mar 24, 2014 16:55:25   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
Kuzano wrote:
Yeah...!!!! Doesn't that just piss you off about doctors in general.

They're all about extending life as long as it only uses the practice of Allopathic medicine, and revolves around the uses of pharmaceuticals from drug companes. Notice I did not differentiate between prescription and non-prescription drugs.

Futherance of the AMA practices the the uppermost tenets of most physicians. Herbal medicine, Spiritual practices, and such outlandish practices as chiropractic, acupuncture and naturopathic practice are simply targets of the AMA and their membership.

Standard AMA practitioners hold first and foremost the rise of their own income. This is indicative financial enhancements of their professions, evidenced by the rising care in health costs.

There are more preventive methods available to retain and improve health, but rarely tendered by AMA and other organizational bodies.

Hence the Hypocritical Oath and the symbolism of the Serpents intertwined about the staff.

I am simply saying that Scott Kelby's observations are naturally self serving shown by his relationship with Adobe, just as most doctors are self serving based on their organizational bodies aim to increasing income for the profession and the drug companies.

My last urging from a physician was to control my cholesterol by taking Crestor in place of Simvastatin as the latter was not working well for me. The cost quote on a 30 day supply of Crestor was $593 (one month!) from on pharmacy and similar from others.

A naturopathic healer found a solution based on herbal supplements, change in diet and exercise. Cholestorol is now within suggested limits, and the supplements run about $20 per month. The diet turns out to be less expensive overall.

So when Scott Kelby divests himself of the NAPP connection, drops his prices to reasonable seminar rates, and becomes a reasonable force in the post processing marketplace... I will relent on his objectivity.

I've purchased some of his books and they are good. However, they are fodder leading into NAPP and the seminars.
Yeah...!!!! Doesn't that just piss you off about d... (show quote)


Enough already!

1. Less than 40% of US Physicians are members of the AMA.
2. The CPT (Common Procedural Terminology) codes, under which all medical procedures are coded for billing, is a product of the AMA, and its use is mandated by all government payors and insurance companies. Doctors must pay large $$ to purchase the list of codes which are not available without charge (although mandated).
3. Physician pay is down 20-30% over the last decade with even more loss looming. There is no extra pay to implement the onerous federal computer and data collection/submission mandates.
4. Those physicians making $ from drugs are those employed in the highly ranked research hospitals. They use your tax dollars to research and then get to own part of the patents than ensue (along with the universities). The vast majority of physicians are in no way involved in this.
5. This mess is the result of Congress that, with the implementation of Medicare decades ago, mandated that Medicine become a business.
6. With the continued cuts, how many young bright people do you think are going to be willing to take on $100,000 to $300,000 or more in debt to work for $70-$80K per year?

Now if you want to talk JPG vs RAW, let's do that. This belongs in another part of UUH.

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Mar 24, 2014 17:13:17   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
Kuzano wrote:
Yeah...!!!! Doesn't that just piss you off about doctors in general.

They're all about extending life as long as it only uses the practice of Allopathic medicine, and revolves around the uses of pharmaceuticals from drug companes. Notice I did not differentiate between prescription and non-prescription drugs.

Futherance of the AMA practices the the uppermost tenets of most physicians. Herbal medicine, Spiritual practices, and such outlandish practices as chiropractic, acupuncture and naturopathic practice are simply targets of the AMA and their membership.

Standard AMA practitioners hold first and foremost the rise of their own income. This is indicative financial enhancements of their professions, evidenced by the rising care in health costs.

There are more preventive methods available to retain and improve health, but rarely tendered by AMA and other organizational bodies.

Hence the Hypocritical Oath and the symbolism of the Serpents intertwined about the staff.

I am simply saying that Scott Kelby's observations are naturally self serving shown by his relationship with Adobe, just as most doctors are self serving based on their organizational bodies aim to increasing income for the profession and the drug companies.

My last urging from a physician was to control my cholesterol by taking Crestor in place of Simvastatin as the latter was not working well for me. The cost quote on a 30 day supply of Crestor was $593 (one month!) from on pharmacy and similar from others.

A naturopathic healer found a solution based on herbal supplements, change in diet and exercise. Cholestorol is now within suggested limits, and the supplements run about $20 per month. The diet turns out to be less expensive overall.

Yeah...!!!! Doesn't that just piss you off about d... (show quote)



WTH?

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Mar 24, 2014 17:16:52   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
WTH?


Thus my comments! Someone needs to get a reality check as to where the health care dollar is going. It is not physicians, in general, especially in small town and rural America.

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Mar 24, 2014 17:23:30   #
mickeys Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
 
here you go





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Mar 24, 2014 17:27:16   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
BobHartung wrote:
Thus my comments! Someone needs to get a reality check as to where the health care dollar is going. It is not physicians, in general, especially in small town and rural America.


Ummm.... this is supposed to be a photography discussion. My comment was for the somewhat off-topic direction this has taken.

WHAT THE HECK does health care have to do with raw or jpeg?

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Mar 24, 2014 17:28:16   #
Kate1948
 
Chris Knight wrote:
I have been under the impression that these two formats have no bearing on photo quality. My assumption has been that RAW shooting enables the shooter to have more flexibility during post processing. Is this correct?


You are correct in that, if you shoot RAW, post processing is necessary and if you shoot jpeg you can print or post the image right away.

"Photo quality" is something that depends in large part on the photographer and, even the best photographer sometimes has to shoot under less than perfect conditions, which is where RAW comes in very handy. Even in shots that come out OK, RAW allows you to take it way beyond OK to pretty darn good. The difference shows in print and on screen.

To me, the issue is: how important is the image to you?

When you shoot RAW you always have the option of deleting the RAW file later if you don't want it but IF it's a photo that you will want to keep--something meaningful like a new baby, a wedding, a graduation, etc.--wouldn't you want to have the best possible keepsake?

Even if you don't know how or care to process it now, save the RAW to process it later. You can regain detail in shadows and highlights; reduce noise; change your exposure; change your white point; sharpen the image--and this is just on the first screen of ACR.

I shoot RAW always. My camera setting has the option of exposing a RAW and a jpeg at the same time. (I assume all do). If the jpeg is fine, I may use it, but if it isn't I go to the RAW and salvage the moment.

I like to have the option, and I regret all the years that I didn't shoot RAW.

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Mar 24, 2014 17:33:05   #
coyotecall Loc: New Mexico
 
I was wondering the same thing......some "raw" feelings I suppose.

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Mar 24, 2014 17:34:38   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
coyotecall wrote:
I was wondering the same thing......some "raw" feelings I suppose.


Though I know exactly which post you are replying to, it helps to click on "Quote Reply" so we are sure.

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Mar 24, 2014 18:34:10   #
wings42 Loc: San Diego, CA
 
A REASON TO SHOOT IN JPEG.

My Nikon D7000 has a shooting buffer size limited to 5 or 6 continuous (burst) mode photos, then it slows down to about a shot every 3 or 4 seconds until the photo buffer clears. I love to shoot birds in flight and was frustrated shooting in RAW. RAW + JPEG was even worse. I use class 10 Sony SSHC 40mb/s 32 GB memory chips.

At the start of this month I went to JPEG only. What a joy! I've not yet run out of buffer space with auto repeat shooting, either fast repeat or slow (my usual mode). That means I can follow a bird from take off to too far away, or conversely from approach to landing and possible interactions with other birds or preening. The photos are generally sharp and clear to the limit of my lens and ability to hold steady. The best action shots are good enough for computer display or possibly 8 1/2 x 11 prints at least. Until I get a camera with a much bigger buffer I'll continue shooting birds and wildlife in JPEG.

These two photos are cropped with no other PP except a bit of sharpening on the butterfly. My 70-300 lens has a minimum distance of 6', and I could only back up about 5'. I included it to show the color.

California Thrasher - Please download
California Thrasher - Please download...
(Download)

California Sister butterfly
California Sister butterfly...

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Mar 24, 2014 20:46:54   #
Chris Knight Loc: Ayden, nc
 
Thanks all that replied to my question. I have read and my question has been answered. There are times I wish this website was on pumping systems....NPSHr vs.NPSHa...static head...friction loss...system curves...something that I really know

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Mar 24, 2014 20:58:19   #
Chris Knight Loc: Ayden, nc
 
BobHartung wrote:
Well, here we go again.

Let me repeat a previous post:

"First, change the camera setting to just save RAW instead of RAW + JPEG.

Also from one of my prior posts:
"
To be short and terse:

JPEG is more like sending your film out for processing. If the scene is a normal one with limited contrast range and brightness, you would probably due well with either. In digital, the camera makes decisions based on presets you have told it to use. Only 8 bits of data. Limited processing after the fact.

RAW is more like having your own wet darkroom. You have complete control of film development (push, pull, develop for extended contrast range, etc). In digital, frequently a 14 or 16 bit image with a great deal more freedom to correct any perceived limitations.

Also, with RAW you do not loose anything if you save the processed image as TIFF. With JPEG, each time you save the file after editing, there is a little more compression and quality loss (although your eye might not see it, an experienced photographer will be able to see it - especially if it is an image that stretched the capabilities of the camera).

HTH. Be sure to read all the other stuff on UHH as previously suggested."

Also buy and read Jeff Schewe's book The Digitial Negative - available from PeachPit press in paper or digital format. " This is a great but brief introduction to Lightroom and photoshop.

"Also it you really want an exquisite and relatively brief (70+ page) workbook on image manipulation in Photoshop and Camera Raw purchase "Photoshop Techniques" handout from Charles Cramer @ http://www.charlescramer.com or call him at 1-408-243-0390.

This is a step by step process manual that he uses for his master printing classes and is superb. The best I have ever encountered. You don't have to have the print as you final output, but he demonstrates clearly what to do. Sample files that follow the examples are included on a CD.

HTH, Bob"

If you don't want to do any post processing, well then just take your sd care of whatever media you use to Walgreens, CVS, Costo, or whatever and have them print you images.
Well, here we go again. br br Let me repeat a pre... (show quote)

Thanks Bob...good advice...will do post processing at some time...just busy with other things right now

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