christofras Loc: Gold Coast Australia

I would agree with that statement!.The picture its self should tell a story without any intent given by the photographer.

Apsley 1812

Clyde141, could you explain to me how you know what a persons motives for posting a picture to the PC&A section are? Should potential posters be made aware that they need to wear their tin foil hats to prevent you from reading their brainwaves?
I'm just curious because I have yet to post any pictures and I've a few things in my head that I would prefer to keep private.

Bmac Loc: Long Island, NY

It will not take much, believe me. Sometimes simply expressing a view is considered controversial enough to bring on personal attacks. Parts of this thread, unfortunately, are very illustrative of that. 8-)

Clyde141

I think it is called intuition and comes after viewing many pages of what has been posted in that section. Don't worry. As far as I am concerned you are the Tin Man.

Sorry it's my W/R side coming through again. I was just trying to be funny. Welcome to UHH. I'm relatively new myself. And this thread is one of the WOW! ones when it comes to controversy.

Clyde141

Isn't a critique about how to improve the picture?

Apsley 1812

Absolutely. But you do not need to know what size brush an artist used to paint a portrait, you look at the portrait and you talk about light, shadow, modelling, texture, color and so forth, not what glasses he was wearing. The discussion on improvement comes after the critique and should be made purely on the merits, or dis-merits, of the picture. Prior knowledge of things such as exif can only taint a critique. Ever heard of blind wine and food tasting? It is used so that nothing influences the verity of the tasting. It equally applies to the critique of paintings and photographs.

Nightski

I am listening, and considering the ideas, arguments, and suggestions put forth.

Nightski

I would like to say something about Graham Smith. While many view him as this professional, expert photographer, Graham does not view himself that way at all. He sincerely looks forward to the feedback he gets on the photos he posts. He is very humble about it, he doesn't brag, he doesn't self promote. I wish that the people who think he is just posting to get a pat on the back, and publicly say so, would take the time to get to know him a little before making statements about him that simply are not true. Yes I think he is an amazing photographer. Many others think he is an amazing photographer.

But, do you know who else is an amazing photographer? PhotographerJim. He places his images in competition. But even though he is very good, he likes to put up an image in the Critique Section for feedback. He has gotten some very useful and helpful feedback. No matter how good you get, it is still nice to have some other points of view on your work. No matter how good you get it is still a hard thing to be objective about your own photos. So please. Quit picking on the talented photographers that post in the Section. They deserve feedback as much as anyone who is just starting out.

Again, Crititque is not Criticism! Critique is the evaluation of an image, good and bad, on the elements that make up a photograph. There are 12 of them listed in the PC&A Section. Here they are again!

1. IMPACT
2. TECHNICAL EXCELLENCE
3. CREATIVITY
4. STYLE
5. COMPOSITION
6. PRESENTATION
7. COLOR BALANCE
8. CENTER OF INTEREST
9. LIGHTING
10. SUBJECT MATTER
11. TECHNIQUE
12. STORY TELLING

All you need to do is to give some feedback on these elements. You can give positive feedback in a critique, as well as negative feedback.

Clyde141

Okay. We both have valid points. The viewer may not need to know in advance. My point is that the artist/photographer does need to answer certain questions. With the artist before he paints. With the photographer before the photo is snapped and not afterwards. If the photographer can’t answer the questions as to what theme he had in mind, about lighting, shadows, why he used a wide angle or telephoto lens, but just snapped a photo of a tree, etc. then why is he submitting the photo for a critique? I guess, in the end I think serious critiques call for serious photographs. And I think asking some of these questions might separate those who really want a critique from those who should be posting their photo in the Photo Gallery or some other section of UHH.

You might look through some of those other sections to see what they are about and what their “rules” are. I know figuring the differences between some of them was confusing to me. From the Home page click on All Sections. the Photo Critique Section, which is what we are talking about is at the bottom. Also look at Photo Gallery and Photo Analysis sections.

christofras Loc: Gold Coast Australia

Yes Nightsky, there more than enough elements here to consider. Just how many of these constitutes a great photo?, and in who's eyes? Everyone has a different viewpoint, so you will not get two people to agree on all of the criteria .I do not think the photographer should state what camera settings used.
As far as judging goes, I think just( one) is all that is needed,maybe (2)

Clyde141

I agree with you. Mr. Smith's photos are beyond my comfort zone so far as my being able to offer any kind of beneficial critique. He should be teaching me. I'm glad he posts them. I've read that the best way to improve our photos is through critiques from other people and the second best way to improve our photos is to look at really good photos. There are plenty of people on UHH whose photos are more than really good.

Nightski

I agree Clyde that the photographer should post a "finished" photo when posting in the Critique Section. However, we need to understand that photographers from several different stages of learning are going to post in the section. With the newer photographers their finished photograph may not look very finished to the experienced photographers. They may not really know why they chose a lens, or why they made an aperture or shutter speed choice. This is not Critique for competition. It is Critique to help new photographers improve and give objective feedback to those photographers who knew exactly why they made the choices they did.

I would like to encourage the new photographers to post their exif data. I agree with Apsley that we do not need exif data to give a critique. Maybe it would be best to simply ask the OP to post the exif data if you are having trouble understanding why he/she made certain choices and why. It would then be possible to offer some helpful suggestions.

christofras Loc: Gold Coast Australia

One thing I have not seen mentioned here is...how much Photoshop editing is going to be allowed.

Clyde141

How do you limit that? For some, photographs are like photos for a news story and shouldn't be altered at all. For others photographs are an expression of art and their photos may be highly altered. I think both are valid.

Nightski

Do you mean how much editing is allowed before the image is posted or how much is allowed after the image is posted?

The OP can do whatever he deems necessary in post to "finish" his photograph.

No edits are allowed in the PC&A Section once the finished photo has been posted. If the photographer wants to do post work then he needs to do it, and post the edited image in a new thread for critique. If he needs help in post, he should go to the Post Processing Section for help.