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Climate change
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Feb 19, 2014 13:59:18   #
GAClowers Loc: Tacoma, Washington
 
Frank T wrote:
You really need to accept reality. The polar ice cap is shrinking, the glaciers are receding, the ocean level is rising and the temperatures have given us record highs for the last nine out of ten years.
Yes Climate Change is real.
You probably won't be affected by it but your children and your grand children will.
Maybe they'll thank you for destroying their planet.


Wake up people. Of course there is climate change. That the earth is warming is not a startling revelation to those of us that pay attention to history. The earth has been cycling its way through many changes over the last 15,000 years. Some of those cycles were even cooler. We have not warmed appreciably in the last 15 years. The debate is about the cause. There is absolutely no data to indicate that humans are any part of the cause even though the liberals in this country would like to throw billions of dollars at a futile effort to stop the warming. It is stupid. I hope you libs that support that insanity will pay my share. Instead, we need to be making plans to deal with the natural changes that may occur from this current natural warming cycle and forget trying to change it.

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Feb 19, 2014 14:03:07   #
Steven Seward Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
 
For an amateur project, I spent two years looking at global warming data from all sorts of original science papers. My conclusion was that global warming is the greatest scientific hoax ever perpetrated on the public. I also discovered that almost everybody I encounter who believes in global warming hasn't the foggiest clue of even the most basic salient facts as evidenced by some of the posts here. For example, both Arctic and Antarctic ice are actually expanding, sea level has risen by the same rate of 8 inches per century for roughly the last thousand years and recently seems to have stalled, and there has been no significant increase in temperature world-wide in 18 years (during the entire time of this debate).
The most revealing thing about the Climate Gate scandal is that global warming advocate scientists are seeking to hide their research rather than share it. If you knew that the Earth was in peril wouldn't you want to scream it from the rooftops? Why would you be ashamed of your methodology? Surely if you have confidence in the science you could just put it all out there and everyone would understand!
In the same vein, I have noticed that many people are disappointed to hear that temperatures and sea levels have stalled. You would think that this would be the greatest news story since the fall of Nazi Germany and the Berlin Wall!

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Feb 19, 2014 14:34:33   #
DrPhrogg Loc: NJ
 
Screamin Scott wrote:
If you believe that, you are either pretty dense or brainwashed by the current administration.....The policies were either cancelled or the renewal premiums went up drastically due to changes mandated by the ACA, the insurance companies were forced to do this by the administration, not something of their own choosing.....Simply blaming it on insurance companies is very short sighted. After all, they are in bed with the current administration...Same thing is going to happen when employer sponsored health insurance policies are forced to make changes in coverages & premiums due to the ACA.... My wife's carrier has already indicated that will be happening when their renewals come up in April. The administration said originally that they wanted the "30 million" uninsured individuals to be covered. Well, they did more than that, they have changed the entire landscape of Health insurance & not for the better. Yeah, people who had "pre-existing" conditions can now get health insurance, and some "preventative procedures" are now covered at 100%, but the non preventative procedures that people will get are going to put them in the poorhouse, what with the high deductibles, copays & out of pocket maximums they will be required to pay before the insurance companies even pay out a dime. Guess what happens then, they don't pay their bills & we have the same situation all over again. Plus the issue of people in the country illegally hasn't been address. Those 11 million plus people, plus those who choose to pay the penalty & those who slip between the cracks between being able to get subsidies or qualifying for Medicare (since not all States are obligated to expand it), will continue to use the Emergency rooms as doctors offices & we as taxpayers will continue to pay for it.... Thus this whole ACA thing is a waste...
If you believe that, you are either pretty dense o... (show quote)


So says the insurance companies. We ALWAYS believe the people who profit.

Reply
 
 
Feb 19, 2014 14:46:06   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
DrPhrogg wrote:
So says the insurance companies. We ALWAYS believe the people who profit.


Are you really this brainwashed? Obama after the regulations took effect decided that he could wave them only after backlash caused by so many people being kicked off of their plans. The president lied repeatedly to the American people and if you don't believe it there is Cspan footage that confirms this as he was confronted by Eric Cantor directly about the provisions in the law that caused these policies to be dropped back in 2010.

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Feb 19, 2014 14:50:02   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
In this case, it is the administration, Insurance companies & Democrats who stand to profit. Is that why you buy their version ?
DrPhrogg wrote:
So says the insurance companies. We ALWAYS believe the people who profit.

Reply
Feb 19, 2014 16:29:01   #
andesbill
 
DrPhrogg wrote:
There is a regular fluctuation that has been identified over the past 10,000 years. The current changes get well outside that range. Local areas have changed due to plate tectonics, but globally? Alaska had to move the start of the Iidarod due to lack of snow.
The sun is known to cause flux on an 11 year cycle. The cycle averages have increased. The major argument is economic, not scientific. Climate science accepts the premise. Feel free to by land near the shore if you don't


If you had actually read the man's words you would have noticed that his main argument was that the scientists of the IPCC allow no opposing arguments argue away dissent by claiming consensus.
Furthermore, they have tested their hypotheses only through computer simulations, which have their own problems.
Finally, he states that the IPCC scientists did not include certain facts pertaining to the sun's output aside from its electromagnetic radiation.
I can't say whether or not his arguments are accurate, but he never denied global warming or a human part in it.
Bill

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Feb 19, 2014 17:16:25   #
ole sarg Loc: south florida
 
Screamin Scott:

Congress passes legislation regarding spending and it is controlled by the GOP Thus, thank them not the Democrats!

BTW the big raise in debt is from Reagan and Bush. The debt incurred by OBama is not because of reckless spending but because of the ITS YOUR MONEY Recession man!



Screamin Scott wrote:
"Maybe they'll thank you for destroying their planet"

They will be too impoverished paying off the debt being racked up by the current administration to notice... If Democrats succeed in passing legislation about "Climate Change" we will become a 3rd world country anyway...

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Feb 19, 2014 17:21:13   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
You are delusional if you believe that about the debt.......As for increases in the spending, the spending programs are already on the books from Obama's fist term when he had a Democratic Congress... The Republicans tried to curtail the spending by stopping the ability of the government to borrow money & it resulted in the government being shut down due to Democrats refusing to compromise...
ole sarg wrote:
Screamin Scott:

Congress passes legislation regarding spending and it is controlled by the GOP Thus, thank them not the Democrats!

BTW the big raise in debt is from Reagan and Bush. The debt incurred by OBama is not because of reckless spending but because of the ITS YOUR MONEY Recession man!

Reply
Feb 19, 2014 17:36:06   #
Trondi
 
Steven Seward wrote:
For an amateur project, I spent two years looking at global warming data from all sorts of original science papers. My conclusion was that global warming is the greatest scientific hoax ever perpetrated on the public. I also discovered that almost everybody I encounter who believes in global warming hasn't the foggiest clue of even the most basic salient facts as evidenced by some of the posts here. For example, both Arctic and Antarctic ice are actually expanding, sea level has risen by the same rate of 8 inches per century for roughly the last thousand years and recently seems to have stalled, and there has been no significant increase in temperature world-wide in 18 years (during the entire time of this debate).
The most revealing thing about the Climate Gate scandal is that global warming advocate scientists are seeking to hide their research rather than share it. If you knew that the Earth was in peril wouldn't you want to scream it from the rooftops? Why would you be ashamed of your methodology? Surely if you have confidence in the science you could just put it all out there and everyone would understand!
In the same vein, I have noticed that many people are disappointed to hear that temperatures and sea levels have stalled. You would think that this would be the greatest news story since the fall of Nazi Germany and the Berlin Wall!
For an amateur project, I spent two years looking ... (show quote)


That's one of the problems of being an amateur Steven! It is very easy to pick up on headline 'science facts' in the press/online (your 'research') as you have done and then create a fantasy storyline in you mind to support your previously held hunches/suspicions.

The professionals however don't have it so easy. They have to collect hard evidential data, process it and then come to a published conclusion that gets 'peer reviewed' by the entire relevant scientific community before it gains acceptance or otherwise.

Can I recommend that you increase the scope of your research to include more than press releases (often journalists struggling unsuccessfully to not get the wrong end of the stick). Many reputable weather centres and broadcasting stations from the US, Europe and elsewhere have very accessible websites that will lead amateurs gently through the arguments, problems and evidence that lead to the 'probabilities' of future climate change. Yes, sorry, mathematical probability is a another subject that you are likely to need to brush up on if you are hoping to get on the bottom rung of the ladder of this debate.

Good luck - I am sure you will let us know how you get on!

Reply
Feb 19, 2014 17:49:36   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
ole sarg wrote:
Screamin Scott:

Congress passes legislation regarding spending and it is controlled by the GOP Thus, thank them not the Democrats!

BTW the big raise in debt is from Reagan and Bush. The debt incurred by OBama is not because of reckless spending but because of the ITS YOUR MONEY Recession man!


Earth calling Sarg.... It's time to come back now.

Reply
Feb 19, 2014 19:42:09   #
DrPhrogg Loc: NJ
 
andesbill wrote:
If you had actually read the man's words you would have noticed that his main argument was that the scientists of the IPCC allow no opposing arguments argue away dissent by claiming consensus.
Furthermore, they have tested their hypotheses only through computer simulations, which have their own problems.
Finally, he states that the IPCC scientists did not include certain facts pertaining to the sun's output aside from its electromagnetic radiation.
I can't say whether or not his arguments are accurate, but he never denied global warming or a human part in it.
Bill
If you had actually read the man's words you would... (show quote)


The models predict the future. The events of the NOW are sufficient to be of concern, Even governments who resist the concept are preparing for the consequences. Regardless how you feel about this, events will unfold, with or without your recognition. If I am wrong, we improve our environment a little. If you are wrong? Without a crystal ball, you cannot tell me which way it will go.

Reply
 
 
Feb 19, 2014 19:59:23   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
Yeah, and computer models are used to determine local weather as well & are frequently wrong...I don't think the argument is whether or not the planet is warming, but what is the cause.... We can only do so much to try & change things, but in the end, our attempts are futile. We should be more focused (pun intended on a photo forum) on coping with the changes as opposed to trying to reverse them.
DrPhrogg wrote:
The models predict the future. The events of the NOW are sufficient to be of concern, Even governments who resist the concept are preparing for the consequences. Regardless how you feel about this, events will unfold, with or without your recognition. If I am wrong, we improve our environment a little. If you are wrong? Without a crystal ball, you cannot tell me which way it will go.

Reply
Feb 20, 2014 00:56:47   #
Steven Seward Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
 
Trondi wrote:
That's one of the problems of being an amateur Steven! It is very easy to pick up on headline 'science facts' in the press/online (your 'research') as you have done and then create a fantasy storyline in you mind to support your previously held hunches/suspicions.

The professionals however don't have it so easy. They have to collect hard evidential data, process it and then come to a published conclusion that gets 'peer reviewed' by the entire relevant scientific community before it gains acceptance or otherwise.

Can I recommend that you increase the scope of your research to include more than press releases (often journalists struggling unsuccessfully to not get the wrong end of the stick). Many reputable weather centres and broadcasting stations from the US, Europe and elsewhere have very accessible websites that will lead amateurs gently through the arguments, problems and evidence that lead to the 'probabilities' of future climate change. Yes, sorry, mathematical probability is a another subject that you are likely to need to brush up on if you are hoping to get on the bottom rung of the ladder of this debate.

Good luck - I am sure you will let us know how you get on!
That's one of the problems of being an amateur Ste... (show quote)


Trondi,

I am not so sure that you read my posting carefully. Somehow you assume that I got my information from "headline 'science facts' in the press/online". I stated clearly that I read "original science papers". To elaborate, I intentionally searched out papers and reports from the scientists themselves so that I could learn first-hand from the original sources, not from some news anchor reporting. Some of the material could only be accessed through my friend's affiliation with a major university and I even had to pay money to access certain papers.

I may be an amateur, but I have enough intelligence, math skills, statistical skills, and critical thinking skills to pour through such information and make an informed judgement. Can you say the same about where you get your knowledge about this subject?

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Feb 20, 2014 02:19:49   #
Shutterbox60 Loc: Calif. USA
 
ole sarg wrote:
Screamin Scott:

Congress passes legislation regarding spending and it is controlled by the GOP Thus, thank them not the Democrats!

BTW the big raise in debt is from Reagan and Bush. The debt incurred by OBama is not because of reckless spending but because of the ITS YOUR MONEY Recession man!


This comment, although it has little to due with climate change; is the most relevant here. For those who keep throwing politics into this subject. The truth here is non negotiable. You remember, the "Trickle Down" that only Trickled Up.

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Feb 20, 2014 20:37:51   #
oldgabby Loc: Middle Tennessee
 
AND THE GREAT LAKES ARE FROZEN.

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