? problem of composition
Jan 17, 2012 23:02:50 #
The colors, sharpness, the wood grain, wow! This picture is great! :thumbup:
Jan 17, 2012 23:10:13 #
Forgive my indiscretion - - I personally think the shot is an incredible composition - - however couldn't resist the opportunity to play (if only with the thumbnail) - - so am begging forgiveness in advance.
Have cloned out a part of the tongue. I personally like the up-close-ness of the cart, and am not sure how one would maintain that perspective without having the tongue off to the lower left corner - - UNLESS you cloned out a part of it in post. (yeah - - sure - - I coulda cloned out the shadow -- but just guess I'm lazy - - )
Again - my apologies to the original artist.
Ya know - - after looking at the before and after - - I think (nope - - I'm SURE) I like the original best !?! The Tongue just kinda GRABS ya and pulls you into the shot! Awesome !!
Have cloned out a part of the tongue. I personally like the up-close-ness of the cart, and am not sure how one would maintain that perspective without having the tongue off to the lower left corner - - UNLESS you cloned out a part of it in post. (yeah - - sure - - I coulda cloned out the shadow -- but just guess I'm lazy - - )
Again - my apologies to the original artist.
Ya know - - after looking at the before and after - - I think (nope - - I'm SURE) I like the original best !?! The Tongue just kinda GRABS ya and pulls you into the shot! Awesome !!
Tongue-less
Original
Jan 17, 2012 23:28:37 #
joe-fl-mt wrote:
I have been told that object extending to the corner of a picture, such as the wagon tongue in this picture from Bodie, are a "no-no". Any comments?
I think it is a "no-no" only if you yourself do not like it. I does not matter what others think unless they are buying it. I like it. To me it suggests that the wagon will be pulled out of the picture past me. Or that I will travel past the wagon on into the photo. If the whole tongue were in the photo, I would not have that feeling of expected movement. Good work. Thanks for sharing.
Jan 18, 2012 08:47:15 #
I'm going to agree with Lucian.
If you had pulled back a bit; keeping the same angle (generally) you'd have taken the wagon out of the dead center and put it on the right a bit....more pleasing to my eye...which would have served to make the wagon smaller (by weight) and put some negative space on the left side.
Also, the angle. Lowering the angle at which the picture was taken might have better utilized the buildings in the background and the hills behind that..to sort of balance the wagon out. Three elements to the story so to speak.
for the record...I agree also that the "rules are made to be broken" gets thrown around a lot as an excuse for "doing whatever I want without the necessary understanding first"
If you had pulled back a bit; keeping the same angle (generally) you'd have taken the wagon out of the dead center and put it on the right a bit....more pleasing to my eye...which would have served to make the wagon smaller (by weight) and put some negative space on the left side.
Also, the angle. Lowering the angle at which the picture was taken might have better utilized the buildings in the background and the hills behind that..to sort of balance the wagon out. Three elements to the story so to speak.
for the record...I agree also that the "rules are made to be broken" gets thrown around a lot as an excuse for "doing whatever I want without the necessary understanding first"
Jan 18, 2012 08:49:45 #
Clarence wrote:
I think it is a "no-no" only if you yourself do not like it. I does not matter what others think unless they are buying it.
I think it is a "no-no" only if you yourself do not like it. I does not matter what others think unless they are buying it.
Well, to be fair...the OP DID ask what we thought... :)
Also, it DOES matter what others think, IF they have an informed opinion that would improve the shot...
If i take a shot and I like it....just because I like something doesn't mean it's the best it will ever be and my opinion is superior to all others....what I LIKE and what is photographically pleasing might be two different things.
Jan 18, 2012 12:56:55 #
Bodie is my very favorite place to make photos. Because it's in the high desert, my MD is reluctant to let me go there any more. Breathing problems.
No more can I say "Good bye God, I'm going to Bodie".
No more can I say "Good bye God, I'm going to Bodie".
Jan 18, 2012 15:58:38 #
Lucian
Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio
It is okay to like what you are producing, it is not okay to think that this is the greatest it will be and should be accepted as the final or correct form, just because you (the maker) like it.
Your first car in or after high school was great, remember? And why? Because you did not know any better, you did not have the experience of what "Better" was. Not that you are older, ask again to yourself, what was that car really like. I know what my answer will be.
I often have a little smile when I read someone comment, on what, at best, could be described as a mediocre photo, that they really like this or wow this is a great photo. I'd love to take it the next step and ask them this simple question... Compared to what, please?
If this clearly "plain" (not the wagon shot here of course)photo is so great for them I would like to know what it is they are comparing it with to take it up to the "great" level. I can only assume they have been looking at sheer crap prior to seeing this "Great" (read plain or mediocre) photo, in order for them to think that it is great. Or, possible they simply have no idea what exactly makes a great photo.
Going back to the comment in a previous post above about if it feels good to you, then it is good as a photo and should not be changed, or something to that effect, well yes to an extent, I agree. However, it must also be followed with... though, if you did this or move here or included that, might it not feel even better to you? Or often is the case that the image is just fine as it is, so nothing need be said to improve it.
We have to remember that the maker may also not have much idea as to what makes up a good or great photo, so to tell them to leave it as it is, when it really could be improved with very little effort, is a dis-service to them, especially if they are asking for critique. Remember please, that critique and criticism are two very different words.
As far as I am concerned, everyone who says wow what a great photo, to someone when it clearly is not that great when compared to some other examples on this and other forums at UglyHedgehog.com, you are not helping that person one bit. Don't rip them a new behind of course, and don't just run down their image in print either, but if it really is not that great, simply do not comment. We don't HAVE to make a comment on every image seen here. Silence also has its weight, you know.
No one will be helped by telling them the image is perfect the way it is or it's great, if that is not really the case. We are all adults and as such we know there is only ONE WINNER in everything in the real world. We should be strong enough to take a constructive critique, especially when we ask for suggestions or critiques here.
This wagon shot is a very good image, well thought out and an excellent point of view chosen to take the photo. It includes beautiful lines of the wagon, and includes great background details of the old buildings. But.... it still could have been improved by adding the entire tongue of the wagon in the whole photo.
I am absolutely sure that the maker of this image is not hurt to hear anyone on here say that he should have included the complete tongue in the image. Yes the image has appeal and it makes many of us feel something when we look at it, but I suspect there was something deep down that made the maker not 100% comfortable with the outcome, and that is why he asks on here about the image. I suspect that the less than 100% comfortable feeling eminated from the fact that the entire tongue on the wagon was not showing.
Let's be fair to others on here and let them know in a caring way, if they could improve their images. And for a few who may know some tips or tricks to improve it, let them also speak out about it and the rest of us can all sit back and see what transpires. Of course if it is blatantly wrong info being offered then we should all speak up and comment on the bad suggestion.
We are not here to hear that every image we put up is fantastic the way it is, that would get old very quickly. We are hear to learn what others think about our images if we ask for critiques, and in that way better ourselves all-round.
I apologise for making such long statement, so often.
Your first car in or after high school was great, remember? And why? Because you did not know any better, you did not have the experience of what "Better" was. Not that you are older, ask again to yourself, what was that car really like. I know what my answer will be.
I often have a little smile when I read someone comment, on what, at best, could be described as a mediocre photo, that they really like this or wow this is a great photo. I'd love to take it the next step and ask them this simple question... Compared to what, please?
If this clearly "plain" (not the wagon shot here of course)photo is so great for them I would like to know what it is they are comparing it with to take it up to the "great" level. I can only assume they have been looking at sheer crap prior to seeing this "Great" (read plain or mediocre) photo, in order for them to think that it is great. Or, possible they simply have no idea what exactly makes a great photo.
Going back to the comment in a previous post above about if it feels good to you, then it is good as a photo and should not be changed, or something to that effect, well yes to an extent, I agree. However, it must also be followed with... though, if you did this or move here or included that, might it not feel even better to you? Or often is the case that the image is just fine as it is, so nothing need be said to improve it.
We have to remember that the maker may also not have much idea as to what makes up a good or great photo, so to tell them to leave it as it is, when it really could be improved with very little effort, is a dis-service to them, especially if they are asking for critique. Remember please, that critique and criticism are two very different words.
As far as I am concerned, everyone who says wow what a great photo, to someone when it clearly is not that great when compared to some other examples on this and other forums at UglyHedgehog.com, you are not helping that person one bit. Don't rip them a new behind of course, and don't just run down their image in print either, but if it really is not that great, simply do not comment. We don't HAVE to make a comment on every image seen here. Silence also has its weight, you know.
No one will be helped by telling them the image is perfect the way it is or it's great, if that is not really the case. We are all adults and as such we know there is only ONE WINNER in everything in the real world. We should be strong enough to take a constructive critique, especially when we ask for suggestions or critiques here.
This wagon shot is a very good image, well thought out and an excellent point of view chosen to take the photo. It includes beautiful lines of the wagon, and includes great background details of the old buildings. But.... it still could have been improved by adding the entire tongue of the wagon in the whole photo.
I am absolutely sure that the maker of this image is not hurt to hear anyone on here say that he should have included the complete tongue in the image. Yes the image has appeal and it makes many of us feel something when we look at it, but I suspect there was something deep down that made the maker not 100% comfortable with the outcome, and that is why he asks on here about the image. I suspect that the less than 100% comfortable feeling eminated from the fact that the entire tongue on the wagon was not showing.
Let's be fair to others on here and let them know in a caring way, if they could improve their images. And for a few who may know some tips or tricks to improve it, let them also speak out about it and the rest of us can all sit back and see what transpires. Of course if it is blatantly wrong info being offered then we should all speak up and comment on the bad suggestion.
We are not here to hear that every image we put up is fantastic the way it is, that would get old very quickly. We are hear to learn what others think about our images if we ask for critiques, and in that way better ourselves all-round.
I apologise for making such long statement, so often.
Jan 18, 2012 18:05:50 #
First let me say that this is a very good picture. I have found that when you find a subject like this it is never in the position that you would like best. So this means you have to make a decision on what you would like to include in the picture. I don't know but maybe their was something that would have been a real distraction so the decision was to take the shot you have. The bottom line is I love what you presented for us to admire. thanks James
Jan 19, 2012 00:42:36 #
There is alot of "we" in your message, I do not see any replies. All shots are up to the maker, and in a perfect world ,there would be shots pleasing to everyone. This site is as you say for gentle and requested critique-I have not critiqued anyone for I am not professionally qualified. Your letter felt too negative, sorry. I come in here to enjoy the art and effort of everyone- I see in letters that many are timid to post- maybe for valid reason-they need encouraging, for there maybe a new thing to learn from one of these people :-D I apologize if I offended you. Now, back to enjoyment :D
Jan 19, 2012 01:05:05 #
Jan 19, 2012 01:20:33 #
ggiaphotos wrote:
I like it! Frame it and send it on over, I'll hang it in my home 8-)
Just sayin' xoxo
:-D
Jan 19, 2012 09:33:51 #
ggiaphotos wrote:
I like it! Frame it and send it on over, I'll hang it in my home 8-)
Oh if we have that option I want one too. LOL
Jan 19, 2012 23:21:37 #
joe-fl-mt wrote:
I have been told that object extending to the corner of a picture, such as the wagon tongue in this picture from Bodie, are a "no-no". Any comments?
I think you did a great job with this photo...as stated before in other messages, rules can be broken, so keep on doing what you do best
Jan 20, 2012 04:02:28 #
catzeye wrote:
I think you did a great job with this photo...as stated before in other messages, rules can be broken, so keep on doing what you do best
joe-fl-mt wrote:
I have been told that object extending to the corner of a picture, such as the wagon tongue in this picture from Bodie, are a "no-no". Any comments?
I think you did a great job with this photo...as stated before in other messages, rules can be broken, so keep on doing what you do best
Yes...rules can be broken...for specific reasons carried out to bring a specific creative result...it's not just that you have a rule and it doesn't matter whether anyone pays attention to it or not...the rules exist because certain arrangements and techniques yield certain results and are pleasing to our eye.
If the OP broke this particular rule for some specific creative effect then I could see this phrase being used but it was an accident.
Jan 20, 2012 08:25:05 #
The tongue running out of the frame bothers me. Ditto Merlin1300's cloned-out tongue (although if it had it been cloned out entirely, that might have worked -- except for the wheel behind the upper part of the tongue made that not doable). Even though your image is otherwise very appealing to me, the tongue out still bothers me. But, obviously, as the other comments clearly indicate, the visceral reaction to an image is entirely subjective. If you're doing your art for you, your opinion is, in my opinion, the only one that counts.
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