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Some business questions for pros
Jan 9, 2014 21:37:44   #
waykee7 Loc: Cortez, Colorado
 
Years ago I had a photography business, mostly selling fine art prints and doing portraits. I lived in a pretty place, and did environmental portraiture and it was reasonably profitable. I mostly did my accounting in a shoebox.

Now there's the internet, electronic ordering of prints from a lab, accounting programs, etc. So I have a few practical questions.

Say you have a internet business, and people order prints and you order them from a lab in another state. If you have the prints mailed directly to the customer, that saves you postage, a trip to the post office or UPS, but you have no quality control over whether people are receiving an acceptable print. If you have the prints sent to you, it roughly doubles your postage expenses, but, of course, you get to see the prints before you send to the customer. It also slows the process. Any thoughts?

When I've sent prints to people in the past few years, I've had some trouble tracking orders, verifying that the orders were shipped from the lab, and tracking payments received. Does anyone have any familiarity with accounting programs that are commonly used by photographers? Any practical, commonsense advice on this, especially from someone who has experience maybe running a commercial portrait operation in which tracking a fair volume of orders is an issue? Are there any labs that have in-house accounting services as part of their professional services packages? Any experiences with them?

Does anyone have experience with writing off photography gear as a business expense, or do you have to depreciate the gear on a 3-year or 5 year cycle?

Does anyone have any experience selling high-end fine art greeting cards? I live in a high-tourist area and there is an opportunity for some modest income. Do you usually buy the wire racks to hold the cards? What's the normal percentage for the vendor? Any commonsense tips?
Thanks for any input!
Wayne Keene (waykee7)

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Jan 10, 2014 09:03:53   #
coolhoosier Loc: Dover, NH, USA
 
waykee7 wrote:
Years ago I had a photography business, mostly selling fine art prints and doing portraits. I lived in a pretty place, and did environmental portraiture and it was reasonably profitable. I mostly did my accounting in a shoebox.

Now there's the internet, electronic ordering of prints from a lab, accounting programs, etc. So I have a few practical questions.

Say you have a internet business, and people order prints and you order them from a lab in another state. If you have the prints mailed directly to the customer, that saves you postage, a trip to the post office or UPS, but you have no quality control over whether people are receiving an acceptable print. If you have the prints sent to you, it roughly doubles your postage expenses, but, of course, you get to see the prints before you send to the customer. It also slows the process. Any thoughts?

It might just be me, but I'm very particular about what my clients receive. I ask my clients to review my proof shots and then make a list of the ones they want (I'm there, of course, to answer questions and to determine what they really want from the print) and give that list to me. I may perform some last minute processing on the selected images (and may do some other things at the client's request). At the end of this, I send the images off to my lab for final processing and I have the results returned to me. When I receive the prints from the lab, I examine them for quality (of color, framing, etc.) When I'm satisfied that they're good to go, I deliver them to the client. This isn't the quickest or cheapest process, but it ensures that I give the client the best image I can (and I make sure that the client knows the details of the process so there are no surprises). I use HourGuard TimeSheet to keep track of my processing time for each client.

When I've sent prints to people in the past few years, I've had some trouble tracking orders, verifying that the orders were shipped from the lab, and tracking payments received. Does anyone have any familiarity with accounting programs that are commonly used by photographers? Any practical, commonsense advice on this, especially from someone who has experience maybe running a commercial portrait operation in which tracking a fair volume of orders is an issue? Are there any labs that have in-house accounting services as part of their professional services packages? Any experiences with them?

Does anyone have experience with writing off photography gear as a business expense, or do you have to depreciate the gear on a 3-year or 5 year cycle?

Any big stuff (cameras, lenses, etc.) is depreciated, but a lot of things fall in the gray area. I provide a list to my accountant along with an explanation of what I'll use it for and roughly how long it will last and let him figure it out.

Does anyone have any experience selling high-end fine art greeting cards? I live in a high-tourist area and there is an opportunity for some modest income. Do you usually buy the wire racks to hold the cards? What's the normal percentage for the vendor? Any commonsense tips?
Thanks for any input!
Wayne Keene (waykee7)
Years ago I had a photography business, mostly sel... (show quote)

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Jan 10, 2014 09:10:31   #
waykee7 Loc: Cortez, Colorado
 
Tom, thanks for the comments. They're helpful. I appreciate your pickiness; delivering a product that the customer is satisfied with is the right way to conduct business.
Wayne

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Jan 11, 2014 02:44:07   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
waykee7 wrote:
Years ago I had a photography business, mostly selling fine art prints and doing portraits. I lived in a pretty place, and did environmental portraiture and it was reasonably profitable. I mostly did my accounting in a shoebox.

Now there's the internet, electronic ordering of prints from a lab, accounting programs, etc. So I have a few practical questions.

Say you have a internet business, and people order prints and you order them from a lab in another state. If you have the prints mailed directly to the customer, that saves you postage, a trip to the post office or UPS, but you have no quality control over whether people are receiving an acceptable print. If you have the prints sent to you, it roughly doubles your postage expenses, but, of course, you get to see the prints before you send to the customer. It also slows the process. Any thoughts?

When I've sent prints to people in the past few years, I've had some trouble tracking orders, verifying that the orders were shipped from the lab, and tracking payments received. Does anyone have any familiarity with accounting programs that are commonly used by photographers? Any practical, commonsense advice on this, especially from someone who has experience maybe running a commercial portrait operation in which tracking a fair volume of orders is an issue? Are there any labs that have in-house accounting services as part of their professional services packages? Any experiences with them?

Does anyone have experience with writing off photography gear as a business expense, or do you have to depreciate the gear on a 3-year or 5 year cycle?

Does anyone have any experience selling high-end fine art greeting cards? I live in a high-tourist area and there is an opportunity for some modest income. Do you usually buy the wire racks to hold the cards? What's the normal percentage for the vendor? Any commonsense tips?
Thanks for any input!
Wayne Keene (waykee7)
Years ago I had a photography business, mostly sel... (show quote)
Only deal with companies you are familiar with, that you know for a long time and were you're sure, the customer receives prints of the utmost quality no matter what. Anything less is a waste of time (and money), yours and the customers!

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Jan 11, 2014 08:06:04   #
Granddad Loc: UK
 
...

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Jan 11, 2014 08:25:26   #
waykee7 Loc: Cortez, Colorado
 
speters wrote:
Only deal with companies you are familiar with, that you know for a long time and were you're sure, the customer receives prints of the utmost quality no matter what. Anything less is a waste of time (and money), yours and the customers!


Thanks Speters.
I've been to Grangeville, Idaho. In 1974 I did a backpack trip into the Idaho Primitive Area and went through Grangeville. Nice country.

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Jan 11, 2014 08:43:53   #
CurreyPhoto Loc: Reddick, Florida
 
waykee7 wrote:
Years ago I had a photography business, mostly selling fine art prints and doing portraits. I lived in a pretty place, and did environmental portraiture and it was reasonably profitable. I mostly did my accounting in a shoebox.

Now there's the internet, electronic ordering of prints from a lab, accounting programs, etc. So I have a few practical questions.

Say you have a internet business, and people order prints and you order them from a lab in another state. If you have the prints mailed directly to the customer, that saves you postage, a trip to the post office or UPS, but you have no quality control over whether people are receiving an acceptable print. If you have the prints sent to you, it roughly doubles your postage expenses, but, of course, you get to see the prints before you send to the customer. It also slows the process. Any thoughts?

Print your own and mail do your own packaging and mailing.

When I've sent prints to people in the past few years, I've had some trouble tracking orders, verifying that the orders were shipped from the lab, and tracking payments received. Does anyone have any familiarity with accounting programs that are commonly used by photographers? Any practical, commonsense advice on this, especially from someone who has experience maybe running a commercial portrait operation in which tracking a fair volume of orders is an issue? Are there any labs that have in-house accounting services as part of their professional services packages? Any experiences with them?
I get payment in advance, so I don't have to track payment. I use a simple spreadsheet to record income, expenses and depreciation. I use a 5 year term on cameras and lenses.

Does anyone have experience with writing off photography gear as a business expense, or do you have to depreciate the gear on a 3-year or 5 year cycle?

Does anyone have any experience selling high-end fine art greeting cards? I live in a high-tourist area and there is an opportunity for some modest income. Do you usually buy the wire racks to hold the cards? What's the normal percentage for the vendor? Any commonsense tips?

No experience here, sorry.

Thanks for any input!
Wayne Keene (waykee7)
Years ago I had a photography business, mostly sel... (show quote)


Good luck with your venture. Let us all know how it works out.

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Jan 11, 2014 08:53:01   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
waykee7 wrote:
Years ago I had a photography business, mostly selling fine art prints and doing portraits. I lived in a pretty place, and did environmental portraiture and it was reasonably profitable. I mostly did my accounting in a shoebox.

I've ordered pictures taken by pros that were displayed on Smugmug. I selected what I wanted, and Smugmug printed and mailed them. The results were excellent and very fast. If you have the prints sent to you, and examine them too closely, you'll find "defects" and want them done over. Perfection is overrated.

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Jan 11, 2014 09:11:23   #
CurreyPhoto Loc: Reddick, Florida
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I've ordered pictures taken by pros that were displayed on Smugmug. I selected what I wanted, and Smugmug printed and mailed them. The results were excellent and very fast. If you have the prints sent to you, and examine them too closely, you'll find "defects" and want them done over. Perfection is overrated.


Somebody smart, I think it was Henry Ford, said that the quest for perfection has wasted more time than any other endeavor. Just say'n.

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Jan 11, 2014 09:21:50   #
coolhoosier Loc: Dover, NH, USA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I've ordered pictures taken by pros that were displayed on Smugmug. I selected what I wanted, and Smugmug printed and mailed them. The results were excellent and very fast. If you have the prints sent to you, and examine them too closely, you'll find "defects" and want them done over. Perfection is overrated.


Not sure who said it, but I think the quote is "Perfection is the enemy of good enough."

The process I described can be overwhelming, but if you calibrate yourself, it'll save you some grief. When I get prints back from the lab, I don't look for errors in cropping or in color balance (although I hope I'll notice them if they're glaring enough), but for post processing artifacts that escaped my final scrutiny before shipping. Three times in the last year I had to have prints redone because of such artifacts.

If I'm being paid for an image, I feel better if I've done everything I can to make them "perfect." Never had one returned.

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