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The Future of the DSLR, an opinion
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Jan 2, 2014 17:41:37   #
Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN
 
dandij wrote:
I can remember not so long ago this same discussion about film v/s digital.
I, along with many others were of the mind set that digital would never surpass film. That digital was only a fad and a crummy one at that.
Remember the, hang on to your film camera as film will never be replaced by a fad. Digital will never surpass the technical quality of film so all true photographic artists will shun digital.
Now look where we are!
If we cling to the past, we will always be playing catch up.
Dan :D
I can remember not so long ago this same discussio... (show quote)


Not really. Digital is still not there yet. Nor do I care if it does. It further mechanises a medium that was already accused of being mechanical in nature.

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Jan 2, 2014 17:45:45   #
dandij Loc: Hoodsport, Washington
 
Darkroom317 wrote:
Not really. Digital is still not there yet. Nor do I care if it does. It further mechanises a medium that was already accused of being mechanical in nature.


The point is, how many new film cameras are sold v/s digital.
And why did most of us eventulaly make the switch?
Dan :D

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Jan 2, 2014 17:49:02   #
Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN
 
dandij wrote:
The point is, how many new film cameras are sold v/s digital.
And why did most of us eventulaly make the switch?
Dan :D


Instant gratification of course. Also, how much oil paint is being sold?

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Jan 2, 2014 17:53:20   #
CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!
 
rebride wrote:
Cds superior to LPs? In what way? Highly debatable if even 'equal to' in terms of sound quality. Heck, LPs are making a come back.
MP3 players sound much better than my old transistor radio. Sound quality can be excellent, especially if using a lossless format (ALAC, FLAC etc.) or using a external DAC. When could you ever carry around so much fine sound so easily?
There is a wealth of excellent speakers out there sounding better and better. Even 'budget'.


CDs are superior to LPs in EVERY way. ;)

And before you ask... you're talking to a guy with over 5 THOUSAND LP's and 12"... and about 500 45's. I have TWO Reel to Reel players, several high end cassette players and even a 1/4" audio recorder that uses VCR tapes for media.

I've had state of the art turntables and cartridges, matched to high quality component systems from Denon to Macintosh. I've also had EXTREMELY good custom built speaker cabinets with expensive drivers and high performance crossovers.

In other words... I know a thing or two about quality sound reproduction.

LP's can't touch CDs in terms of frequency response, dynamic range, SNR, or total data available.

LP's are 1890's technology... on the other hand, MP3's and MP3 players are modern, but in many ways INFERIOR to older technology in terms of performance because they were purpose designed as a compromise... something that isn't necessarily a good thing when it comes to sound reproduction or in this case photography. ;)

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Jan 2, 2014 17:58:42   #
CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!
 
jgordon wrote:
As I read this thread I am a tiny bit distressed at the messages that seem to hold a whole younger generation in low regard based upon its approach to photography. I think this criticism misses something important.

The percentage of people in the world who take pictures now is vastly greater than it ever was in the past. But this vast increase in the percentage of folks making images is not about using fancy dedicated equipment. Rather, it is about people using smart phones and very simple cameras. Most of the new photographers are not interested in making great art. They are interested in making a record of themselves and of their cohort. Phone cameras work great for that purpose and more sophisticated equipment offers no important benefit in this realm.

The percentage of people in the world who are concerned about taking serious art photos has never been very large. I think that those (relatively few) who have that orientation will probably always migrate toward more capable equipment, assuming that they can afford and can understand that equipment. And even these more photographically serious folks will still enjoy good phone style cameras (or point and shoot cameras) because those are more likely to be available when folks stumble onto great photographic situations.

I have no doubt that there will always be a market for sophisticated photo equipment. The compulsion to make interesting images will grab a certain number of folks -- including some younger ones. I'm just not sure that the sophisticated equipment of the future will always have a mirror that bounces out of the way during the image capture process in the style of the old SLRs. And I am not worried about that. Why should I be?
As I read this thread I am a tiny bit distressed a... (show quote)


EXACTLY. :thumbup:

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Jan 2, 2014 18:01:55   #
CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!
 
^^^BTW, your third sentence from the end is already true. ;)

Sony makes a product line of excellent cameras that are either mirrorless, or use a "Translucent" (Pellicle) mirror that stays in place throughout the process so in a way, your prediction has already come true. :mrgreen:

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Jan 2, 2014 18:02:21   #
RMM Loc: Suburban New York
 
Look at what happened with personal computers. The original IBM PC cost $1,565 (about $4,000 in today's terms). Look what that amount of money would buy today. The digital camera industry is following a similar track. The high-end cameras stay at about the same price range, but improve markedly over time. At the same time, prices drop on low-end models, which also improve. Yesterday's 2 megapixel zoom camera is probably matched by a 16 megapixel camera with a larger zoom range, better image quality and more features for the same price. Today's consumer model is a good deal better than yesterday's high end model.

What doesn't change is what constitutes artistry, which takes time and talent. At least, not yet, although the computers are threatening to catch up with us.

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Jan 2, 2014 18:05:18   #
Balboa Loc: NJ
 
Sorry to say it went on forever and I got bored half way through.
However, there is controversy everywhere about everything. Photography doesn't define you; you define it. If you enjoy it so who gives a crap about its trends and politics.....just enjoy.

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Jan 2, 2014 18:13:41   #
mikegreenwald Loc: Illinois
 
It seems that quite a few of the replies as well as the original statement are looking for a one-size-fits-all answer. One of the wonderful parts of this world is the diversity of tastes and skills. I for one value that diversity, though of course I have preferences. Almost every day I see images that I have enjoyed - some perfect, some imperfect. I strive for perfection, fail frequently, and some of the imperfects have brought pleasure greater than the "better" photos.
I am a photographer. I cannot paint a canvas worth a nickel. Does that mean I cannot enjoy nor appreciate a painting? Or a symphony, or a ballet?
My cameras are capable of producing far better photos than their operator (me). I'll never stop trying, and I will stick to the standards that bring warmth to my heart. I hope to appreciate the differing standards of others, to enjoy their successes and some of the failures too.
There is room for all of us!

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Jan 2, 2014 18:14:22   #
Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN
 
Also, SLRs were not always that popular. For a long time TLRs and then rangefinders were the popular cameras. With TLRs the mirror did not move and rangefinders did not have a mirror. Among the masses the small instamatic cameras were popular.

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Jan 2, 2014 18:24:54   #
Fred in Boise Loc: Boise, Idaho
 
Some you are missing my point. In my post I described what I thought would be a great transition dslr camera i.e. fewer low use features, great "take my pic now" features (no red eye, better flash, easy to use shutter/exposure control.

Right now even many POS cameras offer a bewildering amount of options in taking a photo; the real POS is fading away due to dumb marketing research. AND their reliability in POS situations is lousy--hence the comments by the marathon runner.

Think of the Canon EF from 1977 but lighter with video,16mb processor, 2.8 16-35mm lens, weight in the 10 to 14 ounces range, and in designer colors.

The plastic bodies are a personal yuck, but there's no reason metal and weather proofing could not be added to mid range frames if the transition market took off.

And puh--lease put the VR back into the camera body!

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Jan 2, 2014 18:34:43   #
CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!
 
^^^Sony does. ;)

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Jan 2, 2014 18:45:29   #
Rbrylawski Loc: Tampa, FL
 
Photogdog wrote:
RPbySC,

I have both the Canon 5D MkII and the Canon 7D along with a bunch of lenses.

That said, I also have the Sony NEX-7 (along with a bunch of lenses including the Zeiss 24mm f1.8)

I also own the Sony RX 1, RX-100II & the RX-100. I usually take the Sonys out to play with & use the Canons for the more serious stuff.

I shot this with the RX 1 last Saturday night right after sunset. I took 5 shots using RAW capture and then combined them in Photomatix Pro converting it into a High Resolution jpeg. Then I added some more jpegs that I shot using the in-camera filter effects (monochrome + red, yellow, blue & green). I balanced, adjusted for crop, light, contrast, saturation and added a light touch of sharpening in Photoshop Elements 10.

Photogdog
RPbySC, br br I have both the Canon 5D MkII and t... (show quote)


It's pictures like this that make me wish UHH had simple like button. You'd get LOT'S of likes for a shot like this!

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Jan 2, 2014 19:08:59   #
DebAnn Loc: Toronto
 
I think there's a lot of truth in his points about what younger people what and the importance they put on those wants. But, and this is a big but, the younger generation has never had as much disposable income as their elders because they haven't yet been able to acquire it. Thus, there has always been a market for cheaper cameras and less complicated methods of doing things. Even so, there are scores of young people taking photography courses at local schools where they learn the basic skills we all learned, even darkroom skills. They do this because they understand the importance of those basics to future growth. Photography isn't dying and neither is the appreciation of artistic and fantastically brilliant shots. Even the youngster who loves the immediacy of iPhone pics still recognizes the importance of work by skilled and seasoned photographers. Like paintings by great masters, there will always be a place for photographs by great masters. A photograph that elicits a gasp of sheer wonder will never go out of style.
RPbySC wrote:
A professional photographer I know sent the following out by email just as an interesting opinion. It seems that most people on UHH are in the older generation as far as photography experience goes. Anybody agree or disagree or not care?

By Kirk Tuck – He was in the Samsung Booth at PhotoPlus Expo.

I can profile the average camera buyer in the U.S. right now without looking at the numbers. The people driving the market are predominately over 50 years old and at least 90% of them are men. We're the ones at whom the retro design of the OMD series camera are aimed. We're the ones who remember when battleship Nikons and Canons were actually needed to get great shots and we're the ones who believe in the primacy of the still image as a wonderful means of communication and even art. But we're a small part of the consumer economy now and we're walking one path while the generations that are coming behind us are walking another path. And it's one we're willfully trying not to understand because we never want to admit that what we thought of as the "golden age of photography" is coming to an end as surely as the kingdom of Middle Earth fades away in the last book of the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

At this Expo we worshipped at the altar of the same basic roster of speakers and presenters who've been speaking and presenting for the last ten years. We've closed the loop and the choice offered to younger photographers is to sit and listen to people old enough to be their grandmothers or grandfathers wax on about how we used to do it in the old days or to not come at all.

When I listen to lectures about how the market has changed what I hear from my generation is how to take the tools we programmed ourselves to love and try to apply them to our ideas of what might be popular with end users today. So we buy D4's and 1DSmkIV's to shoot video on giant Red Rock Micro rigs and we rush to buy Zeiss cinema lenses because we want the control and the idea of ultimate quality in our offerings while the stuff that the current generation is thinking about is more concerned with intimacy, immediacy and verisimilitude rather than "production value." To the new generations the idea of veracity and authenticity always trumps metrics of low noise or high resolution. And that need for perfection is our disconnection from the creative process, not theirs.

Our generation's fight with digital, early on, was to tame the high noise, the weird colors, the slow buffers and the old technology which saddled us with wildly inaccurate and tiny viewfinders and batteries that barely lasted through a sneeze. We pride ourselves on the mastery but the market moved on and now those parameters are taken for granted. Like turning on a television and assuming it will work. We are still staring at the technical landscape which rigidly disconnects us from the emotional interface of the craft. If we don't jump that shark then we're relegated to being like the photographer who makes those precious black and white landscapes which utilize every ounce of his PhotoShop skills but which, in the end, become works that are devoid of any emotional context. In fact, they are just endless revisions of work that Ansel Adams did better, and with more soul, fifty years ago. Technique as schtick. Mastery for mastery's sake with no hook to pull in a new generation. Of course we like technically difficult work. It was hard for us to master all the processes a decade ago. Now it's a canned commodity, a pervasive reality, and what the market of smart and wired in kids are looking for is an emotional connection with their images that goes beyond the mechanical construct.

It's no longer enough to get something in focus, well exposed and color correct. It's no longer good enough to fix all the "flaws" in Photoshop. What the important audience wants now is the narrative, the story, the "why" and not the "how." The love, not the schematic.

So, what does this mean for the camera industry? It means that incremental improvements in quality no longer mean shit to a huge and restless younger market. They don't care if the image is 99% perfect if the content is exhilarating and captivating. No one cared if the Hobbit was available at 48 fps as long as the story was strong in 24 fps. No one cares if a landscape is perfect if there's a reason for the image of a landscape to exist. No one cares if a model is perfect if the model is beguiling.

What it really means for the camera industry is that the tools they offer the new generation must be more intuitively integrated and less about "ultimate." In this world a powerful camera that's small enough and light enough to go with you anywhere (phone or small camera) trumps the huge camera that may generate better billboards but the quality of which is irrelevant for web use and social media. The accessible camera trumps the one that needs a sherpa for transport and a banker for acquisition.

I look at the video industry and I see our generation drawn toward the ultimate production cameras. Cameras like the Red Epic or the Alexa. But I see the next generation making more intimate and compelling work with GH3's and Canon 5D2's and 3's. Or even cameras with less pedigrees. The cheaper cameras mean that today's younger film makers can pull the trigger on projects now instead of waiting for all the right stuff to line up.

If I ran one of the big camera companies I would forget the traditional practitioners and rush headlong toward the youth culture with offerings that allowed them to get to work now with the budgets they have. Ready to go out and shoot landscapes? Will a Nikon D800 really knock everyone's socks off compared to an Olympus OMD when you look at the images side by side on the web? No? Well, that's the litmus test. It's no longer the 16x20 gallery print because we don't support physical galleries any more.
A professional photographer I know sent the follow... (show quote)

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Jan 2, 2014 19:16:57   #
Rbrylawski Loc: Tampa, FL
 
Here's a device I wouldn't mind owning. The Hyetis Crossbow Mechanical Smart Watch. It has a 41 mega pixel camera, a Swiss Mechanical movement and it will sync with my iPhone. It's technology like this, outside the box, that the younger generation finds appealing.........Heck, I find it appealing!



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