mdorn Loc: Portland, OR

No argument here---reading a manual can be very useful and a huge time-saver at times. No offense to Jerry, but setting up a Vizio TV is not a good example of this. I purchased one for my son a few years ago. Once turned on, it was all menu driven. The embedded firmware and quick start guide was dumbed down so much it would be hard to setup things incorrectly. We all want "plug-and-play", and then when they give it to us, we look for the paper manual? :-)

On the other side of the coin, there is my camera manual. With all it's content of each feature, I felt myself wanting more information in more detail, so I purchased even more paper in book form to walk me through the subtleties of each feature and why they included them on the camera to begin with.

Then there is my service manual for my car---which I had to purchase separately. I do a lot of my own maintenance, so the $120 I paid was well worth it. I absolutely could NOT have this in PDF form. I need the paper copy right in front of me with my dirty oily fingers flipping through the pages.

I live in Oregon, but I'm not a tree hugger. Of course, like many, I do "my part" to recycle and conserve, but let's be honest---convenience and cost always win. I'm not going to run the water for 3min to rinse a plastic container for the recycling bin. However, in the summer, I will ride my bike to work to save fuel and prevent emissions. Of course, riding my bike benefits me in more ways than one.

olcoach Loc: Oregon

Perhaps if we let manufacturers know how we feel about their attitudes we could effect some change. An example of this is Ruger Firearms made a powerful pistol that was really hard to use as the grip was too small. The users let Ruger know and Ruger added another companies grip. Of course, Ruger is an American co. and there are no American Tv manufacturers but maayybbee if we screamed really loudly someone might think to build in the USA. I know that is a strange idea but I'll pay more for an American product, and I'll bet most of you would too.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

I keep unsubscribing, and that seems to work. I also used an online catalog discontinuance service that has helped. Not a day goes by that I don't get advertising in the mail. Northern Tool and another company send me a large catalog that's almost an inch thick a couple of times a year. I've told them to stop, but I keep getting them. They make good fuel for my wood stove.

mdorn Loc: Portland, OR

I often get beat up by other techies on this forum for suggesting to buy Intel inside. The Intel CPUs are too expensive when you compare them to AMD's version. However, Intel manufactures more than 90% of it's CPUs right here in the US. AMD has 100% of it's manufacturing done in China, Malaysia and Singapore. Intel has 100% control over it's product quality where AMD has a foundry manufacture their chips.

Sorry, I didn't mean to go off topic here... I have no vested interest in recommending Intel chips... ha ha <joke>

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

I always choose Intel, although I didn't know that AMD was made overseas. If anyone had asked me, I probably would have said that Intel was also made overseas.

mdorn Loc: Portland, OR

We have 2 CPU manufacturing fabs overseas, one in Ireland and another in Israel. We also have a fab in China, but they only produce chipsets for our older 65nm technologies. So, yes, it will cost more to buy Intel, but from someone who has worked for AMD and currently works in the fab at Intel, I can tell you that we have the best most reliably made products your money can buy at this time. So thanks... :-)

pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY

I think you have missed the obvious. Like it or not, paper ads generate revenue - manuals generate nada. When it comes to making a profit, trees mean little. I don't condone it but it is a fact of life.

In addition the bulk mail is what keeps the post office alive.

MW

PDF downloads for manuals annoys me too. However, in their defense, many businesses face political pressure to "Go Green" and in politics appearance is much more important than substance. Putting you paper manuals looks good to the green bureaucrats.

Aside from that you may be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't) at how many people go through life never opening their owner's manuals for any product. Thus there may actually be a net reduction in paper consumption.

BTW: Nikon saves more than just the cost of the manuals. They take up warehouse space and are one more thing for receiving, shipping and stockroom employees to spend their time on. From personal experience the manuals are technically referred to in the inventory management world as a "PITA"

amehta Loc: Boston

Very true about the total costs. Including the paper cuts. Oh, the paper cuts!!! :-)

Ralloh Loc: Ohio

That whole "save the planet" thing is utter nonsense anyway. Take trees used for lumber and paper. They are crops! No different than a field of corn, but just take longer to grow. When a section is cut down, young trees are replanted. In 15 or 20 years, those will be ready for harvesting too. Save the planet my rear end.

pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY

If your world in just the US you are about 20% correct. Yes there are some foresters that cut and replant just like Xmas tree farms. If you include third work countries there is no replanting just harvesting.

mdorn Loc: Portland, OR

LOL. We will die as a race way before the planet expires. I agree with that. However, the quality of wood products, when we were cutting down 100+ year old trees, was much better than the 20 year old trees of today. My parents' home was built in the 50s on top of the San Andreas fault. During the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, the house shook, but sustained very little damage. I realize this is not a scientific example, but I seriously doubt my new wooden home built in 1998 could sustain a quake of that magnitude anymore. The reason? Softer, younger cut wood is not as durable and strong as the older stuff. Cutting down the forest prematurely does have a cost beyond this example too. So, although I agree that the planet may not be saved by avoiding clear cutting, there are certain luxuries and qualities of life that we are giving up TODAY by completely ignoring the environment or by just replanting trees that were several decades old.

mdorn Loc: Portland, OR

:thumbup:

Harry Thomas Loc: Doylestown, Pennsylvania

Very Clear Thinking. :thumbup:

WAL

It should have said to increase profits. The documentation with products gets worse every year. Even when you do find a manual the index is poor. The proof of how bad it is shows in the after market books explaining what the manufacture should have done. adobe is one of the worst. I have CS^ and it came in a cheap box w/o anything.