Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
Is Obamacare really health insurance?
Page <prev 2 of 2
Dec 2, 2013 11:15:30   #
gmcase Loc: Galt's Gulch
 
BigBear wrote:
The poor in this country have always been taken care of.
Yes, they often went to the emergency rooms at a higher cost than to be seen at a clinic, but it has never come near to the cost of what has already been pumped into Obummercare where no one has been covered for anything as yet.
As far as Romney care, that system is imploding on itself right now and it's future doesn't look good.


It seems the more we give to the poor the more poor we have to give to. The definition of insanity is............

Reply
Dec 2, 2013 11:19:45   #
Joecosentino Loc: Whitesboro, New York
 
mwsilvers wrote:
I don't like Obamacare and I don't like Obama, but what you are suggesting is more than a little paranoid. Most working adults already have a social security card and pay in money to the IRS, and most of us have trackable smart phones and non smart phones, plus the government can track our online use. Many millions also have car tags that track our movement through toll booths. If the government wants to track and spy on us they already have plenty of ways to do it without Obamacare. Additionally, most of us who already have insurance through their employer will not be signing up for the Affordable Care Act. There are plenty of reasons to hate it without going over the top.
I don't like Obamacare and I don't like Obama, but... (show quote)

Your plans through your employer will be changing, the old system is done! Most people I known are being offered higher deductible plans for more out of pocket cost,

As a self employed person I found a plan for 640/mo. $2000 deductible with co I durance it's about $4500 out of pocket max per year. Had surgery last year total bill 88,000 for a week. I paid a touch over 3000. With out insurance I would still be paying it off. Insurance is one of those things you hate but love.

I just don't want the Govt involved I think the system is going to break and rates will go through the roof and we will all be stuck. The object of govt. is to collect in taxes and fees as much of our income as they can. If you add all the taxes and fees you pay now must of us are close to 60% of our income going to one tax or another.

Reply
Dec 2, 2013 11:59:13   #
rrforster12 Loc: Leesburg Florida
 
Obamacare is simply a system designed to generate sufficient funds to pay for the people that never would pay for healthcare themselves. It is actually "wealth redistribution" institutionalized and packaged to be palatable to the citizens. That is the reason that so many things like maternity benefits for the elderly are incorporated in the policy's being offered. They simply will not be used but will still be charged for, which allows the extra money collected to be shifted to the non-payers, who now are effectively provided free benefits. Why go through this charade? Because our government has no money to provide the services and it would not be politically possible to pass the tax laws needed to generate sufficient revenue to pay for the millions of non-payers. I believe that this cobbled together ACA will fail and be replaced by something else, but the probability of that being better for the populace is slim and none.(Too many vested interests) Since WW II, when has our government ever successfully designed and implemented a really successful nationwide program??? The bureaucracy of this country no longer allows it. I think Ike was the last President that achieved a program that was good for the entire country (the Interstate Highway system) and even that has been allowed to deteriorate greatly.

Reply
 
 
Dec 2, 2013 12:02:10   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Joecosentino wrote:
Your plans through your employer will be changing, the old system is done! Most people I known are being offered higher deductible plans for more out of pocket cost,

As a self employed person I found a plan for 640/mo. $2000 deductible with co I durance it's about $4500 out of pocket max per year. Had surgery last year total bill 88,000 for a week. I paid a touch over 3000. With out insurance I would still be paying it off. Insurance is one of those things you hate but love.

I just don't want the Govt involved I think the system is going to break and rates will go through the roof and we will all be stuck. The object of govt. is to collect in taxes and fees as much of our income as they can. If you add all the taxes and fees you pay now must of us are close to 60% of our income going to one tax or another.
Your plans through your employer will be changing,... (show quote)


We just signed up for our 2014 employee plan starting Jan 1. It includes a very moderate increase of a few dollars a month and no changes to deductibles or covered services. The co-pay is $15 and the annual deductible is $300 per person if you use in-plan physicians and facilities, which we do. Maybe things will change for the worse in the future, but so far the only change that affects us is the ability to continue to cover my son until he's 26, which is a positive, not a negative.

Reply
Dec 2, 2013 12:21:54   #
BW326 Loc: Boynton Beach, Florida
 
mwsilvers wrote:
... most of us have trackable smart phones and non smart phones, plus the government can track our online use...... If the government wants to track and spy on us they already have plenty of ways to do it.


You're right about that. Before I retired 4 years ago I used to write software for phones as well as GPS mapping software. We tracked the phones that had GPS chips as well as the mobile phones that didn't by triangulating the cellphone towers they reported to.

Reply
Dec 2, 2013 13:44:05   #
BigBear Loc: Northern CT
 
gmcase wrote:
It seems the more we give to the poor the more poor we have to give to. The definition of insanity is............


Only when the government is involved is when the poor get poorer with no incentive to get out.
With the power of the free market they have an opportunity to work their way out as I did or get cut off from help.

Reply
Dec 2, 2013 14:17:06   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
BigBear wrote:
Only when the government is involved is when the poor get poorer with no incentive to get out.
With the power of the free market they have an opportunity to work their way out as I did or get cut off from help.


I wonder if you would have felt this way if you were a shop worker, or factory worker or a domestic in the mid late 19th century when government was not involved and there were no safety nets for workers. Or were you in favor of 9 year old children of that era working in mills 12 a day, 6 days a week. For many willing to work during the Depression things were not much better. I guess you are also against the minimum wage. Why pay someone $7 per hour when it's cheaper to pay them $5. The free market is a wonderful thing but it can be as flawed as government intervention. Based on your sentiments I assume you will forego social security and medicare when you retire and live solely on your savings since these programs and well as many pension plans are the result of government interference in the free market.

Reply
 
 
Dec 2, 2013 14:44:24   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
dpullum wrote:
SteveR, I am sympathetic to your problems with a system with flaws (no a flawed system).

When I was teaching 2006-09, a Colonoscopy was an out patient process, so the Florida Teachers insurance would pay $200 of the $1000. A check of the stomach would have been an additional operation and probably another $1000.

When I was living in Argentina 2010, I paid $250 a month for insurance that covered everything. The Colonoscopy cost me $10 for disposable plastic ware. While I was anesthetized they also checked the stomach and removed 3 pollops. Biopsy was negative, the dermatologist told me the next week since I was on a computerized system and he had full view of all my health records!

Perhaps we could look at other countries and be amazed that their health systems work and work well and emulate them. I have experienced two, Argentina, and Australia; the people seem pleased. Surly there are flaws in those systems and any thing in life.

Perhaps because we are such a divided country that half the people and their representatives do no want the system to work and work against it. Texas is one state that is very anti-Obama even to the point of talking succession from the union (again).

Regarding fear of "registration" well at birth I was registered, at 16 in order to work, I was registered with Social Security, and at 18 registered for the draft. I even have a federal number for my time in the service.

The only registration I hated was the loyalty oath required for a job prompted by the Ted Cruz of the era, Eugene McCarthy... me a Communist, hell no, I was too poor to even be a Capitalist!! Socialist, yes, I was educated in public schools, drove on public streets. All were socialist except for that toll bridge which was privately owned!!

I do hope for the good of our nation that ACA is successful. Do we want, for example, children who are type one diabetic to never have health insurance. Do we want to have an emergency and go to an emergency room filled with people who are there for routine primary care? No, and that is what Romney-care was designed to eliminate.
SteveR, I am sympathetic to your problems with a s... (show quote)


Pullum....You speak with a broad stroke and not specifics. As far as Texas wanting to secede...that was a few nuts, not Texas. As far as the ACA helping children with Type 1 diabetes, that's pie in the sky. That was Ted Kennedy's hope, it's not reality. Tell me, do you know of a diabetic child going without insulin? Give me an example. I think you're blowing gas. And I don't know about Australia or South America, but I'll take the healthcare that we have in the U.S. anyday, and $200/mo. is not going to provide access to it. I'm also going to take a photo of the new Parkland Hospital. It's larger than Cowboy Stadium. It treats Medicaid patients and patients who have no insurance at all. This is the last month for my son to have insurance through the Texas Health Pool. This was set up by the Texas Legislature (Republicans mind you) back in the 90's to provide insurance for the uninsurable, like my son. He's exhausted his Cobra, and couldn't get private insurance because of an aortic valve replacement. This insurance, too, only had a $2500 deductible. His Texas insurance was better than this ACA insurance. Trump that!!

Texas also has the CHIPS program for children shose families cannot afford health insurance. My grandson had health insurance on this program for awhile. It insures that all children in Texas can have health insurance. This answers your problem about children with type 1 Diabetes. I'm going to guess that a lot of the liberal states in the north east don't have these programs. If they did, we wouldn't need the ACA. Would we now, Pullum?

Reply
Dec 2, 2013 14:55:12   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
Fstop12 wrote:
Steve I'm not sure that this is correct. It is true that some people are experiencing higher deductibles. I think it might be correct if the patient uses an out of network provider for their care. If the provider of medical services is in the network then it would work like this. I will use your example.
A patient needs an MRI. The facility doing the MRI is an IN-Network provider for the Patient's Insurance. What this means is the Provider agrees to accept the contracted Allowable payment for the MRI, NOT, the Retail Price. So if the provider Billed 3000 dollars for the MRI and the contracted allowable was 960 dollars, then the patient would be responsible for the 960 dollars if none of his/her deductible had been met. The 960 dollars would then be applied to the patient's deductible for the calendar year. This is usually explained on what's called the EOMB or Explanation of Medical Benefits the patient would receive from the Insurance company showing the Medical Provider's Charge, Insurance Allowable, and Patient's responsibility if any. This is how it used to work, I don't think it has changed.
Steve I'm not sure that this is correct. It is tru... (show quote)


FSTOP12...I'm not blowing smoke here. I've experienced it, and even talked to the insurance company about it. They didn't mark the charge down to the contractual price until the deductible was met. They didn't care how much out of pocket I was. They only marked it down when they had to pay.

Reply
Dec 2, 2013 19:43:42   #
BigBear Loc: Northern CT
 
mwsilvers wrote:
I wonder if you would have felt this way if you were a shop worker, or factory worker or a domestic in the mid late 19th century when government was not involved and there were no safety nets for workers. Or were you in favor of 9 year old children of that era working in mills 12 a day, 6 days a week. For many willing to work during the Depression things were not much better. I guess you are also against the minimum wage. Why pay someone $7 per hour when it's cheaper to pay them $5. The free market is a wonderful thing but it can be as flawed as government intervention. Based on your sentiments I assume you will forego social security and medicare when you retire and live solely on your savings since these programs and well as many pension plans are the result of government interference in the free market.
I wonder if you would have felt this way if you we... (show quote)


People manage to do what they have to do to survive. True, conditions back then are unequalled to todays standards. But that's what people had to deal with. It was when people decided that they had enough to get together and make changes happen. Businesses pay what people are willing to take for the job. It's about supply and demand, when the business can't get enough people to work for the offered wages the wages increase. The minimum wage is for kids just out of high school to get them started and gain experience, not for adults with a family to try to live on. The only reason to raise the minimum wage is to get more pay for the already overpaid union workers. It does nothing for anyone else if not making things worse for them.

Any time government gets involved with trying to make things equal for everyone, the situation always gets worse.
And any time the government screws up nothing happens to undo the damage. The law remains continuing to cause harm to everyone.

As far as social security goes, the pot is empty as it was transferred to the obummercare abyss and I was raised to be self sufficient and not look to the government for what I need.

Reply
Dec 3, 2013 01:38:47   #
Larrymbst Loc: Los Angeles,Ca
 
I can't believe I'm seeing rational responses to the haters. Those paranoid lunatics still looking under the bed for Communists are incapable of discussing anything Obama let alone the ACA. It's sad but thank goodness they remain a crazy minority sitting in their houses armed to the teeth waiting for the Muslims to burst through the door ...Yikes!

Reply
 
 
Dec 3, 2013 16:17:39   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
I am going to alter my O.P. somewhat. After talking with a Blue Cross agent further, I have found that there are ppo plans with lower deductibles that cost in the $340-380 range for a 28 year old male. One deductible is as low as $1000. I believe, however, that we will stick with the $6000 deductible at $203/mo. We could pocket the savings and over time make up the difference in the deductible if needed. The other deductibles for the same cost factor (340-380) are $3000 and $3250. Each has its advantages.

Reply
Dec 3, 2013 16:20:48   #
Fstop12 Loc: Kentucky
 
SteveR wrote:
I am going to alter my O.P. somewhat. After talking with a Blue Cross agent further, I have found that there are ppo plans with lower deductibles that cost in the $300-400 range for a 28 year old male. One deductible is as low as $1000. I believe, however, that we will stick with the $6000 deductible at $203/mo. We could pocket the savings and over time make up the difference in the deductible if needed. The other deductibles for the same cost factor (3-400) are $3000 and $3250. Each has its advantages.
I am going to alter my O.P. somewhat. After talki... (show quote)


Steve not sure if your policy applies, but with that high of a deductible it might qualify for a Health Savings Account to help with the deductible. HSA offer some Tax savings to those that qualify.

Reply
Dec 3, 2013 17:15:30   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
Fstop12 wrote:
Steve not sure if your policy applies, but with that high of a deductible it might qualify for a Health Savings Account to help with the deductible. HSA offer some Tax savings to those that qualify.


Thanks Fstop. Evan will be finishing his Radiology program either in May or July, so I'm hoping that this is short-term, and that he'll be getiing employer provided healthcare shortly after that. Over the years Cobra and the Texas Health Pool has been expensive, but then I look at how expensive his last surgery was and I don't feel so bad when I pay for it.

Reply
Dec 3, 2013 18:15:05   #
BigBear Loc: Northern CT
 
SteveR wrote:
I am going to alter my O.P. somewhat. After talking with a Blue Cross agent further, I have found that there are ppo plans with lower deductibles that cost in the $340-380 range for a 28 year old male. One deductible is as low as $1000. I believe, however, that we will stick with the $6000 deductible at $203/mo. We could pocket the savings and over time make up the difference in the deductible if needed. The other deductibles for the same cost factor (340-380) are $3000 and $3250. Each has its advantages.
I am going to alter my O.P. somewhat. After talki... (show quote)


So at $203 a month and a $6000 deductible, and you don't spend more than $500 month for services, you are paying $8436 before the plan will start paying anything.

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 2
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.