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Photographer’s Rights?
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Nov 27, 2013 08:18:21   #
Mr. B Loc: eastern Connecticut
 
Amen!
BigDaddy wrote:
The people making all these laws are not after the common good, they are control freaks. Their main interest is getting away with forcing others to do something. For example, smoking bans. I don't smoke, but, I was amazed that when our football stadium first went non-smoking, you were banned from smoking in the seating area, which was outside in the open air, but had to go INSIDE under the roof to smoke. Made no sense to me. Now, I have some friends that smoke those goofy steam, non tobacco electric cigarets. They tell me lots of non-smoking places won't allow them to "smoke"those, even thought there is no smoke, no fire, no tobacco. Seems to me any excuse to control others make some folks happy campers. Government will never stop making laws controlling your behavior, it's what they do. Only sticking to the constitution as closely as possible can save us, and that seems highly unlikely.
The people making all these laws are not after the... (show quote)

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Nov 27, 2013 08:27:33   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Pepper wrote:
Yepper that's exactly what I'm talking about. Soon we'll have law governing the use of cameras in the name of public safety and of course we'll need funds to pay for this regulation. The bottom line is if we don't learn to govern ourselves Uncle Sam or Cousin Willard will be more than happy to step in and take charge.

People think that laws and rules are for others. This shot is from Yellowstone. Even if you can't read English, you know you are not supposed to climb over the fence and go near the hot water.



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Nov 27, 2013 08:30:31   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Bobbee wrote:
But do you agree that we ARE over regulated???????

No doubt about that, with more laws coming every day. A lawyer once told me that most laws concern banking and insurance, and they aren't for the benefit of the public. But you have to consider who is making the laws and who is paying to get them elected.

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Nov 27, 2013 08:34:22   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
rpavich wrote:
The problem with your whole argument is that you've already assumed that to take photos and to mention that we have a right to do so is "obnoxious" or "invasive"

I agree. It's not the people exercising their rights who are the problem. It's the jerks who don't know the laws and want to prevent people from doing things that are legal.

Members have often asked about taking pictures of people in times of tragedy. Yes, it might be an intrusion, but those images are spread around the world and show the rest of us what others have experienced. Imagine if there were no photos of WWII.

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Nov 27, 2013 08:36:06   #
cthahn
 
Pepper wrote:
I am an avid supporter of personal rights and it frustrates me when I think of all the rights and privileges we are losing in this nation. It seems you need a permit (all come with a charge of course) to do most anything. You can’t put up a simple fence in many parts of the country without a building permit all because folks kept putting up unsafe fences so the lawmakers decided to regulate them. Think about it, if we in photography don’t start using some common sense and extending some common courtesy the lawmakers will step in. Courts are beginning to rule against the more aggressive paparazzi even now. Maybe we should start giving some thought to how we approach our craft from a moral perspective instead of jumping on the “It’s my right” bandwagon. The liberals in this country swing a big stick and they are all about the good of the whole and have little respect or interest in individual rights. If we continue on the course we’re on and continue to support rude and invasive attitudes and constantly proclaim “It’s my right” I promise the lawmakers will change or at least modify how “your rights” are defined. You don’t think so? Try going fishing or hunting or even buying a gun without uncle Sam’s permission, those used to be common rights as well. Think about it next time you jump to support some obnoxious creep with a camera.
I am an avid supporter of personal rights and it f... (show quote)



You people voted in the same people that are making all these laws, they a re making changer, so live with it.

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Nov 27, 2013 09:04:08   #
sirlensalot Loc: Arizona
 
dooragdragon wrote:
As it is now here where I live, Most concerts etc forbid anyone but their staff or selected photographers to bring in any camera ( yet I phones and cell phones are in abundance there)
That policy kept me from attending 2 concerts as taking photos at the show of the performers is just as entertaining as seeing and hearing the show .
I purchased a Nikon 50mm lens specificaly for concerts and never got to use it at 1 so far.
Even the rodeo's and PBR are adapting a no camera policy in some areas.
As it is now here where I live, Most concerts etc ... (show quote)



Similar regulations in at least one nearby city park here. The problem was professional photographers who felt because it was a city park, it was theirs to use as they saw fit. One backed in a large truck filled with furniture and props to use for wedding shots including a large sofa. City finally started charging a yearly permit fee for anyone to use that area of the park for things like weddings regardless if you were charging for photo services or not. Commercial photographers pay according to a combination of factors. The city created an area of a city park that is perfect for wedding and engagement shots, but it is the popularity and high usage, combined with the need to curtail ongoing problems that forced the city to raise the degree of regulation.

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Nov 27, 2013 09:11:52   #
Ga Blue Knight
 
Pretty much when permits are applied its for revenue generation under the excuse of safety or the public good. If I go to the local park with a point a shoot I can take all of the photos I want but if I use my D7100 which "looks" pro to the park folks out come the permit police wanting a cut of my income, even though I am not a pro and do not earn income from photos. No amount of explaining works until I show my Federal Law Enforcement Credentials and then it's "oh take all of the photos you want sir", even though I am shooting a model! This is our inconsistent government at work. It's not a right or left issue it's an incompetent lower and upper management issue!

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Nov 27, 2013 09:25:32   #
Bram boy Loc: Vancouver Island B.C. Canada
 
Pepper wrote:
You don't "own" property in the USA anymore. You rent it from the government, now they don't call it rent they call it property tax. Stop paying your rent (tax) and see how long you keep your property. If you own something that means you have control over it, again not so with property. You own a home and want to build an addition or an outbuilding you better get permission, you want to rent it out? Don't expect to just rent it to whoever you want, there's rules you have to follow...and on and on.
You don't "own" property in the USA anym... (show quote)


you have a right to it all . if you were born as one of the first nation people. then it's all free . if you want to become a doctor, judge , engineer , any thing
you want it's free university and lodging free food , it's all free , as long as your one of the select first nation group. even half the fish are ours . and were only one tenth of the fleet . all you have to do is apply yourself and want it .

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Nov 27, 2013 09:32:19   #
Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA
 
rpavich wrote:
The problem with your whole argument is that you've already assumed that to take photos and to mention that we have a right to do so is "obnoxious" or "invasive"

I disagree with your beginning premise.


Sorry rpavich you misunderstood my post and I think even intentionally. I've been reading your posts for a long time and I know you have better comprehension skills than that. My point is not our right to take photos but our defense of those who take photos with no regard for their subjects. Using the "its our right" argument to support or condone obnoxious behavior will lead to more legislation. You may indeed keep your "rights" but I promise that the definition of your rights will be modified and will become law. I'm only suggesting that photographers extend a little kindness and courtesy before it's forced down our throats.

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Nov 27, 2013 09:42:09   #
ole sarg Loc: south florida
 
Speaking of rights what I really dislike and deplore is the attempt of the government to limit abortions and voter rights. Now those are really out of bounds!

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Nov 27, 2013 09:49:18   #
Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA
 
ole sarg wrote:
Speaking of rights what I really dislike and deplore is the attempt of the government to limit abortions and voter rights. Now those are really out of bounds!


Come on ole sarge I'm trying to keep this on topic, that being the danger of photographers losing rights if we don't start controlling our own behavior.

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Nov 27, 2013 10:07:01   #
amyinsparta Loc: White county, TN
 
SharpShooter wrote:
Pepper , your last few posts HAVE lost all perspective. They had not one iota of photography.
It's time to take your political rant to the chit chat graveyard.
SS


On the contrary, the 'rant' as you call it, pertains to photography, because the issue is the same-shall we have a free-for-all society in which I take any picture I want, when I want, of whom I want, and if they don't like it, too bad; or shall we self-police?

We obviously have not self-policed, or entertainers would not be prohibiting any kind of photographic implement during their concerts because they feel it distracts them and prevents the audience from participating in the show because they are too busy photographing it and sending the photos to their friends who aren't there. In addition, many people video tape the concert with their phones, which in almost all cases, is not legal.

So the issue is the same, regardless of subject matter. We haven't self-policed ourselves, and so rules have to written. There are simply way too many people in the country wanting to do their own thing at the expense of those deemed irrelevant.

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Nov 27, 2013 10:21:54   #
UP-2-IT Loc: RED STICK, LA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
It's not Uncle Sam as much as cousin Willard. The towns, counties, and states are usually the entities that regulate activities. They do it partly out of public safety and partly to raise revenue. As soon as they start issuing permits, they need people and a building. That costs money, and part of the fee goes to paying salaries and maintaining the facilities. What's left over goes into the general fund.

As much as we all like the thought of "living free," we'd soon find that life without laws would be very unpleasant.
It's not Uncle Sam as much as cousin Willard. The... (show quote)


:thumbup: :thumbup:

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Nov 27, 2013 10:24:03   #
UP-2-IT Loc: RED STICK, LA
 
amyinsparta wrote:
On the contrary, the 'rant' as you call it, pertains to photography, because the issue is the same-shall we have a free-for-all society in which I take any picture I want, when I want, of whom I want, and if they don't like it, too bad; or shall we self-police?

We obviously have not self-policed, or entertainers would not be prohibiting any kind of photographic implement during their concerts because they feel it distracts them and prevents the audience from participating in the show because they are too busy photographing it and sending the photos to their friends who aren't there. In addition, many people video tape the concert with their phones, which in almost all cases, is not legal.

So the issue is the same, regardless of subject matter. We haven't self-policed ourselves, and so rules have to written. There are simply way too many people in the country wanting to do their own thing at the expense of those deemed irrelevant.
On the contrary, the 'rant' as you call it, pertai... (show quote)


Greed and ignorance prevents self-policing.

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Nov 27, 2013 10:26:19   #
BigDaddy Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
FredB wrote:
Mussolini,Hitler and Pol Pot would be very surprised to hear that they controlled "nothing".

Yes, those folks are on the left, like all dictators. Whomever told you these folks were on the right lied to you. Like I said, you can fool with the words, but the concepts don't change.
FredB wrote:

"Left" and "Right" differ only in the MEANS they use to control.

Government always uses the same MEANS to control, and it is power.
FredB wrote:

Remember, most of the opponents of personal behaviors such as abortion, sexual lifestyle, and pharmaceutical use are "Right" wing people. If you believe that the "left" wants to control you, and the "right" does not, your position is fundamentally flawed.

If you think Mussolini, Hitler and Pol Pot were not left wing dictators, then your position is fundamentally flawed. Total left is totalitarianism, total right is complete individual freedom, ie, anarchy. Exercising control over anyone is towards the left. Not exercising control is to the right.

Thinking preventing an individual from taking pictures, or banning a person being a prostitue is somehow less control is frankly, silly. Also, it is not about the MEANS of control, that is consistant. Exactly what is being controlled varies. You may think the government preventing you from taking a picture, or smoking dope is wrong, but controlling your health care, or setting up Gestapo road blocks to catch drunk drivers is OK.

Opinions vary on what government should control, but, the more laws you have the less freedom you have. It's right/left, liberal/conservative, progressive/libertarian whatever you want to call it. The labels are there only as communication aids.

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