gessman Loc: Colorado

I don't understand your rationale at all. Please explain how it makes you better to force a short window of opportunity onto all the busy and successful photographers in uhh so many of them will not have time to demonstrate that they can do something they may have already demonstrated perhaps hundreds of times. If you force an inconvenience on others because they have other obligations and cause them to drop out, you may think you look better but you do not unless you have concurrently done what is necessary to elevated your own skill set in which case you shouldn't need to petition for an equal footing or an advantage more likely.

Following your reasoning, we haven't done anything but lower the bar. The whole object is to raise the bar, not lower it. Perhaps if you can't compete with the bar high, maybe you either need to put in more effort or perhaps you're spending your time on the wrong thing. In my lifetime, the nature of competition has been based on the idea that if you decide to enter a race you don't get to insist all the other runners slow down so you can beat them. I don't think we've come that far yet.

Now, if we want to draw arbitrary lines in the sand, which isn't the case up to now, lines that eliminates our more accomplished photographers for no apparent reason except to "level the playing field," what will we have accomplished. You have to pick which field you want to play on or level other playing fields through personal effort and not by dragging everybody else back. Why should it be necessary to have an image made in the week prior to the close of competition. What is inherent in and achieved by that in the way of encouraging a person to higher achievement.

DebAnn Loc: Toronto

Very well said, gessman!

St3v3M Loc: 35,000 feet

I am going to try something later tonight. I would like to hear back from you.
Everyone cross their fingers (unless you are taking photos, then keep shooting!)

findlekind Loc: Canada, west coast

It seems to me that raising the bar implies making a contest more difficult. Perhaps going out and taking the challenge seriously is responding to the higher bar rather than resting on the laurels of the past.

It seems to me that in my lifetime all those who entered a race started at the same line.

gessman Loc: Colorado

Nope. It just implies that you don't win just by showing up. You have to bring something with you called skill and a desire to compete and not just try to pull everyone back to the lowest common denominator. St3v3M clearly stated that the object is improvement through participation and self challenge. Voting is just a way to measure who is trying or at worst, having real good luck, like me.



You make it sound like you think a 7th grader in his first 100 yard dash should be on an equal footing with a five year college senior three-time NCAA national champion as long as they both start at the same line. Surely you jest. However, we all start the WPC at the same line just not with the same skill set.

I will tell you that it is observable that several of the rules below have been violated multiple times in the last two weeks alone. It says, for instance, "Post Processing is fine, but keep it to a minimum." Well, the winner of one of the contests was an HDR image, about as processed as you can get. The 2nd place image was not fresh that week, nor was the 3rd or 4th place entries. None of the winners were technically qualified according to the rules some of you folks are wanting to apply after the fact.

Here are the rules again, so it remains clear that everyone started at the same line. It is noteworthy that "archived photos are not encouraged." That's a far cry from "archived photos are prohibited." Implicit in that is the suggestion that we use current files if possible and if not, use what we have but in either case, participate.

- Contests start Friday mornings and end Wednesday evenings (EST)
- Voting starts Thursday morning and ends Friday evening (EST)
- One original entry per member, and entries may only be used once. Repeats will be deleted.
- Entries that do not follow the theme will be deleted
- Photos MUST include a title or description *(see below). Untitled entries will be deleted
- Post processing is fine, but keep it to a minimum
- Archived photos are not encouraged - please shoot your photo during the challenge
- Once voting starts there can be no additional entries
- To keep it fair, the user names and vote counts are hidden until voting is over and winners are announced.
- All votes are anonymous
- A maximum of 250 entries will be allowed per challenge
- NEW - Your entry may be used in the WPC - Analysis Forum
- Rules are subject to change as the challenges require

findlekind Loc: Canada, west coast

[quote=gessman][b]You make it sound like you think a 7th grader in his first 100 yard dash should be on an equal footing with a five year college senior three-time NCAA national champion as long as they both start at the same line. Surely you jest. However, we all start the WPC at the same line just not with the same skill set.[/quote]

Seems to me you are in a race that took place years ago. If I, as a 7th grader wish to challenge an NCAA champion when the gun goes off, yes we start at the same line but also the same time. Let's see what you can do under pressure.

St3v3M Loc: 35,000 feet

And...back to the topic at hand...

STVest Loc: LA - that's Lower Alabama

The only person I'm challenging is myself.

St3v3M Loc: 35,000 feet

= Photography

gessman Loc: Colorado

If you're trying to imply that I'm getting to be a little old, why, how very perceptive of you. LOL! I don't think I'll feel much pressure from makin' a lil' ol' photo. I'll probably be ok but this is not about me. I am a little worried about you though 'cause you're sounding pretty stinkin' goofy and you just got here. I can't imagine what you'll sound like after you've been here awhile.

My apologies St3v3M - I'm done with this now.

francesca3 Loc: Sausalito, CA

I like this idea. Then everybody can play!
Great points.
To my mind it's not a big deal whether a photo was taken yesterday or a year ago ---> but, of course, it all depends on the rules.

riverlass Loc: northern California

Rules seem to be "the bad guy" here. What happen to following the rules? Maybe it's because we gave kids too many "choices" when they were going up?
Would you like Cherrios or toast for breakfast? No? How about some eggs? No? How about some...
Where would you like to sit, with mom and dad, over there, at another table?.. under the table?
What do you want to do today?
It's OK, Willie, you decide, sweetie.

Which "time out" do you want, the one at the computer or the one with the laptop?
They think they have the right to make choices about everything and change the rules when they choose.
There's a generation of "I make up my own rules and, you must always give me choices."
Rules are not democratic. Rules don't apply. Rules are controlling and mean spirited.

OK, I woke up to more smoke from the Yosemite fire ,AGAIN, this morning. I'm cranky. I blame the smoke for my behavior.
I apologize ahead of time.

gessman Loc: Colorado

Let me see here, if I got the intent of this right, since I seem to be the most recent and egregious offender, let me see if I can sooth your pain a bit. This is not just for you but also for the few others who obviously do not seem to understand the nature of this issue.

I won't repeat this again but the rules up to now have allowed a person to use images that were not created within the time span of the ongoing challenge/contest regardless of the basis for the intent. Just so we will know who you are and are not talking about in your rant, I'm soon to be 77, rode in on the heels of the Great Depression in 1937, lived through WWII and Korea the underprivileged, middle of three boys who enjoyed hand-me-down clothes, no bicycles, no tv, no computer, no camera, and few toys of any sort, the son of a dirt poor Southern Baptist Minister in Arkansas. I won't speak for everyone else but if you're implying that I'm a spoiled brat you clearly must be judging all situations by something you have no knowledge or understanding about.

While not speaking for others, I was not being purposely opportunistic due to being a spoiled brat and quite frankly, your jaded commentary was quite uncalled for in my case and I'm not digging for a bone of sympathy. A 40 year diabetic, with the ravages of age and the partial amputation of my left foot the day before Thanksgiving last year has made it a little more difficult to do some things I would like to do so I will do it how the rules allow me to or won't do it at all, just so you and the others who read the rules and decided for your own self what they should say rather than what they do say and also so each of you can get things in very clear perspective. As long as I am staying within the guidelines of what the rules DO say, not what you think they ought to say, frankly I don't care what you think or say but you'd look a lot more intelligent if you didn't try to impose your will on the rest of the world.

I've grown increasingly weary with those of you who think using historical images up to now was a violation of the rules. Frankly, my first entry into this whole scenario was a couple of weeks ago, having entered a contest only once previously in a Classmates.com photography forum about five years ago, which, incidentally, I tied with two others for first place in, and to be honest with you, I don't need any of this to enjoy my hobby to my satisfaction, especially the rancor from some or you who either cannot read or alternatively cannot understand what you've read in the rules. I have no interest in an ongoing conflict with any of you but you need to pay attention to the reality of the situation and stop criticizing people who have followed the rules as they currently exist up until the current edition labeled "Labor" wherein they have been changed going forward.

The rules have been changed, are duly noted by me, and hopefully St3v3M will be a little less lenient on those who cannot see that their images do not fit the subject and ruthlessly cull them out even if it does mean that the whole endeavor will have to be scrapped for lack of adequate qualified participation. I'm sorry about your smoke problem but your misfortune doesn't authorize you to come blowing it at me. Now, if your apparent rant was just all in good fun, so is mine, or if I somehow failed to grasp the significance of what you said, nevermind!

riverlass Loc: northern California

This was not directed at you. I apologized if you thought so. Anything that St3v3M can do to make everyone happy is fine. I not against changing the rules or making new challenges that allow for more folks to enter their photos.
I was just "ranting" about the issue of following the rules because some don't feel they have to. It was about my opinion, not you. I'm only 10 years younger than you and I would never want a challenge to eliminate people because of their age or physical condition. I'm just saying that if the rules say "no archiving" or "please don't over use post production too heavily... then these are the rules (one hard line, the other rather loose).
I guess I should have had another cup of coffee and not tried to breath the mountain air this morning. I do apologize.

sammytalia7 Loc: Verde Valley, Arizona

Okay, I am not a competitive person, but I do want to learn from others under the same constraints. No matter the rules, it is still the individual's right to participate or not. If you are too busy, skip the week you cannot participate. Time is a constraint we all deal with, and if you are a professional, I am sure you have a timeline on your projects for your clients. You should be used to it. Let's get serious. I don't usually have attitude in a discourse, however, the sarcasm and rudeness here by a few is inappropriate. Just express your opinions without belittling or questioning others about their point of you. Maybe what I just said should be a rule. lol