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Shooting HDR — without bracketing
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Aug 24, 2013 16:38:31   #
Mousie M Loc: Coventry, UK
 
mikegreenwald wrote:
Michael G: Can you explain why aperture priority is preferable?


Excuse me butting in again. In order for the software to function properly, you need exactly the same picture content in all the exposures. Hence use a tripod, and you also need the same depth of field in all the exposures. If you change the aperture you change the depth of field, so it is best to work on aperture priority, pick an aperture which stays fixed for the whole set. Just change the shutter, and the only variation between them is the exposure.

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Aug 24, 2013 17:20:22   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
mikegreenwald wrote:
Michael G: Can you explain why aperture priority is preferable?



I'm not MichaelG, but I called a guy, early on, either at Helicon Focus (focus stacking) or at Photomatix (HDR). Essentially, I asked this same question. His answer was that the algorithms were different which is why the aperture must remain constant. The changing DOF cannot be handled by software designed to combine bracketed exposure shots, which are "identical" in all other respects.

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Aug 24, 2013 17:23:11   #
wlgoode Loc: Globe, AZ
 
DoctorChas wrote:
Folks

It recently occurred to me that it should be perfectly possible to shoot HDR photos without actually shooting bracketed shots. Essentially, the idea is to create two or more additional shots based off the original RAW file with the requisite over or under-exposure.

My own particular HDR workflow uses both Aperture and HDR Efex PRo 2. When applying any sort of adjustment to a RAW image in Aperture (and I suspect Lightroom works the same way), Aperture "overlays" any changes to the original image in real-time. When considering RAW images, a change to the exposure should simply be altering those raw values thus, functionally and mathematically, there should be virtually no difference between a shot deliberately under or over-exposed in camera to one where you adjust the exposure value in post.

My own experimentation in this area suggests that this is actually the case and in evidence, I offer the two examples below. The first is composited from three shots done in camera, The second is created by taking the original normal exposure and the creating two versions—one under-exposed, the other over-exposed by the same amount as the original, in this case 1&#8531; stops.

This means that it becomes possible to shoot stuff with rapidly moving objects like racing cars or aircraft in HDR—which would normally be impossible with conventional bracketed exposures— simply by manipulating the math. I have seen some discussion on other sites on this issue but, to me, it seems that they are not grasping what's happening to the underlying math when the manipulating the RAW file.

I would be most grateful for comments, gripes and whinges particularly those that indicate I am barking up the wrong tree.

=:~)
Folks br br It recently occurred to me that it sh... (show quote)


From the appearance of the photos, there wasn't a great deal of range between the highlights and shadows. Easy to do with no HDR.

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Aug 24, 2013 17:24:46   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
wlgoode wrote:
From the appearance of the photos, there wasn't a great deal of range between the highlights and shadows. Easy to do with no HDR.


Concur.

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Aug 24, 2013 17:43:13   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
DoctorChas wrote:
... My point was to try to understand what the mathematical difference between the data in a RAW file under or overexposed by, say, 1 stop in post and a RAW file actually over or underexposed by that same value.



Think of your image pixels as buckets. If you don't have a photon go into one it provides no image. It is blocked. If you have too many photons hit it then it fills...and can't record additional ones...it is blown.

When you take three images you are allowing more time for the empty buckets to fill and shortening the time so the otherwise full buckets aren't full and can record some data.

You can't fix that after the fact.

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Aug 24, 2013 22:40:03   #
Armadillo Loc: Ventura, CA
 
DoctorChas wrote:
That makes sense, however, if my original exposure has pixels that go over peak white but below the recovery point, I can either use Recovery to pull those pixels within the white point or reduce the exposure (which of course lowers every other pixel). The same should apply when I go the other way: lower the black point or raise the exposure (and, again, affect every other pixel).

But it still does not answer my original question...

=:~)


Perhaps if your exposure is over exposed by .3% you might be able to recover some data, but the usefulness of that data in the image may be unusable.

When we speak of digital imaging devices we are talking about an electrical device converting photons into electrical pulses. When those electrical pulses reach a predetermined cut-off level all remaining data is lost for ever. This differs from film where we could "Push" the exposures, and "Push" the film processing.

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Aug 24, 2013 23:17:58   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
Just and aside. My Nikon cameras provide a two shot HDR capability in camera. Interestingly enough it doesn't work with RAW as the image type. You must select one of the jpeg image types.

I never use the in camera HDR because the testing I did with it early on led me to believe that Nikon's Active D-lighting is more effective than their two shot HDR. I haven't even tried it on my newest camera (D800). Maybe I should.

I leave Active D-Lighting on Auto.

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Aug 26, 2013 07:21:01   #
winterrose Loc: Kyneton, Victoria, Australia
 
DoctorChas wrote:
That makes sense, however, if my original exposure has pixels that go over peak white but below the recovery point, I can either use Recovery to pull those pixels within the white point or reduce the exposure (which of course lowers every other pixel). The same should apply when I go the other way: lower the black point or raise the exposure (and, again, affect every other pixel).

But it still does not answer my original question...

=:~)


Reading all of this it appears that you are probably the only one here who doesn't have a handle on what true HDR actually is. The photographs that you put up do not even come close to encompassing the full dynamic range available, let alone being in need of HDR as compensation, just check out the histograms. You know what they are don't you? As for your statements about comparative audio bit depth, 24 bit permits recordings with a dynamic range of not 120db as you suggested, it's more like 144db.

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Aug 30, 2013 15:06:36   #
art pear Loc: North Dakota
 
Doctor Chas I do this all the time and it works fine. I have done it with upto 9 different exposures based off the same raw file and they look very nice.



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Aug 30, 2013 15:13:07   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
art pear wrote:
Doctor Chas I do this all the time and it works fine. I have done it with upto 9 different exposures based off the same raw file and they look very nice.


It is good if you like the result.

It isn't HDR and you can accomplish the same thing other ways in Photoshop-like programs if the data is there in the image.

If that way works for you then go for it.

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Aug 30, 2013 15:14:51   #
art pear Loc: North Dakota
 
exactly who cares what ya call it as long as you like it

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