wilsondl2 Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska

How in the world did crop factors get into this thread. She told us she had a Nikon crop camera and asked the cheapest way to get a wide angle lens to shoot interior shots. Have not seen much on that subject. - Dave

GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City

ALL treads seem to turn into crop factor threads eventually (& unfortunately). :roll: This one went and joined the Coast Guard; possibly one of the most under-appreciated military services.

country Loc: back woods

agreed, this is a great lens, but she needs the focusing motor in the lens which is then >$600.00...

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

I also shoot interiors for real estate agents. We are supposed to have at least a 10-20mm ultra wide angle. The tech guy of the company I subcontract to also recommended that if I could buy an 8mm it would actually be a bit more versatile. So I bought a Sigma 8-16mm for $650 at B&H with free shipping. It is a very nice lens.

I try to avoid using 8mm when possible though because it gets barrel distortion like a fish-eye and vignetting on the four corners. I fix those problems in LR4 pretty easily when I have to use 8mm. Typically I only use 8mm in a small bathroom, walk-in closet, or very small bedroom where it's a tight squeeze and I want to make it look bigger which the minor fish-eye effect does. Otherwise I try to stick with 9 to 12mm most of the time to help avoid that. The farther you get away from 8mm the less the abberation shows up.

If I had to do it over, I'd probably just buy the Sigma 10-20mm because it has a better f/stop range and is cheaper. I have concluded it's much harder for a manufacturer to achieve an 8mm rectilinear lens that doesn't go fish-eye really bad and that's why it's more expensive than the 10-20mm. As a matter of fact, I think the Sigma is the only 8-16mm on the market at a reasonable price for the big three brands. I use Sony myself but it's available for Nikon and Canon.

It's a VERY sturdy lens, built like a tank, and heavy with a lot of metal parts. The glass is exceptionally good, it has nice color outdoors because of the proprietary glass coatings on every element, and it's very crisp and clear. I'm surprised I don't get hardly any flare problem when shooting outdoors with a mid afternoon sun overhead.

The lens comes with a hard leather zippered case with padding inside. You will be using it outdoors too. I've found that exterior closeups that the real estate market needs for posting on MLS are best shot from within the grass front yard or the end of the driveway at about 12 to 16mm and fill the frame completely with house. Much more effective than anything a 24mm on up can achieve. You practically have to go across the street to shoot an exterior front and get the whole house in it with a 28mm. I started out using my 18-55mm zoom on exteriors but quickly found it was much better just using my 8-16mm for everything indoors and outdoors.

You'll also be shooting your panoramas on a tripod, camera vertical, with a panorama head you will be buying. Those are shot at 9 or 10mm or else it looks like your lens is right up against the wall in a master bedroom or kitchen.

If you're just getting into real estate photography and have questions so that I can help you skip the trial and error portion of doing it, PM me and we'll talk.

Natural light with no flash


I do pseudo-HDR processing on outdoor shots to make them pop


There's a walk in closet and dressing room behind me with this bath too!

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

You clearly don't understand what she is going to be doing. You can't use a 24 or 28mm lens to shoot a 6X8 residential bathroom or a 10X12 children's bedroom and get the whole room into the photo. Your exceptional quality shots of cathedrals and skyscrapers has no bearing on what she is going to be doing. I agree with you about Panasonic, Leica, etc. but this ain't the place for anything but a 10-20mm or 8-16mm zoom. I do what she's going to be doing every day myself.

riverlass Loc: northern California

What is "pseudo-HDR processing"? How is that done?

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

You do it with a single shot and the software somehow creates an over-exposed and under-exposed version itself, and combines them to give you a fake HDR project to do "tone mapping" on. I use it for giving an outdoor photo extra "pop" mostly.

Comparison examples below. The pseudo-HDR is exaggerated but can be toned down some if you choose. The general public is "wow'd and awe'd" by the rich saturated colors though and I work for realtors who really like this except if I end up with the home's color being out of kilter. I usually de-saturate home front shots. I use Dynamic Photo HDR 5 to do this.

Original shot edited in LR4


Same shot after pseudo-HDR instead

country Loc: back woods

I like it....

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

If you wanted to do some extreme HDR work on a scenic or something you'd likely need to do the standard 3, 5, or 7 shots on a tripod but in my situation I can't spend the time to do that and I certainly don't want to do all that processing to just get a little "pop" on a half dozen shots per project. Dynamic Photo HDR 5 does both kinds. I think it's like $59 or $39 or something like that and it's one of my 3 main software tools in this line of work.

rrg6481 Loc: USA

An old friend of mine once said to me "Paralysis from Analysis". You can all interpret that for what it is. Its like saying the "Serenity Prayer" for me. I have learned a valuable lesson recently and am a bit humbled now. None of us know the perfect way to take a photo that all should follow to be a good photographer. I have also recently realized by being myself and just doing the best job that I can is more important than knowing all the spec details of all my equipment. Our cameras are merely an extension of our minds and how we use them is solely up to the individual and how much effort one wants to put into it. For me the struggle for precision is over and the space for creativity has moved in. If you are making money as a pro you are very fortunate and that also places you in a club meant for a just a few. If you want to make money as a pro just work your ass off. There simply is no substitute for hard work. Have fun and enjoy what you you do. Happy shooting.

riverlass Loc: northern California

Oh, that is a nice difference. (I always wanted to do real estate photos. Some are so awful.) I have done what I call "fake" HDR on my picasa program. I make 3 or 4 of the same photo and then lighten and darken them. Then I run them through the "collage" setting and from there sharpen, tone down, crop and do other PP work on it. Sometimes this works well. I didn't even know that there was a Dynamic Photo HDR % to do this . I will check it out. Thanks.

rrg6481 Loc: USA

I shoot every real estate shoot in HDR, process every other photo and turn all the photos within 24 to 48 hours. Shoot nine for all interior and seven for exteriors. This works well for me. There are numerous ways to shoot real estate. My way works for me. One thing I would like to add is flash to add some pop to my pics, or maybe process differently. Any one out there have any suggestions?

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

I can't do that. I wish I could. I'm contracted to usually do 25 stills and 4 panoramas in a shoot. I typically shoot a lot more than that from various angles, various flash head angles, various positions, etc. I have to try to balance indoor and outdoor light with spot metering and a single flash which would be resolved by HDR. Nice big homes here in FL have huge amounts of windows so that balancing act is in at least 50% of the rooms of the homes. I'm to do the whole shoot (supposedly) in 35 minutes but I always take an hour, or hour and fifteen, depending on the number of rooms to be done and nobody complains because I do better work than they've ever gotten here before. I don't keep the whole price of the tour myself because I work for a national company so I can't spend massive time doing all HDR and processing. I wish that wasn't the case but it isn't. I also am to turn the photos around the same night that I shot them during the day.

You clearly have a better situation than mine and can enjoy yourself creatively more than I can.

rrg6481 Loc: USA

You might want to try HDR. I think I could satisfy the interior shots with seven and the exterior with three but I like the complete coverage of 9 and 7 in case I need to modify processing. Also included are at least 2 brackets of each perspective...just for insurance. I think 35 minutes per shoot is unreasonable. I shoot a 2500 to 3500 sq ft home in about 60 to 90 minutes. 25 to 50 HDR photos. Depending on the speed of your computer the whole shoot can be batch processed in Photomatix on a lap top (part of which can be done en route to the office in the car) in about 90 mins. Photo Shop post takes another 60-90. With 2 lap tops most of the batch processing is done while driving and while unloading at the office. You could process 3 shoots in a long day earning $300 to $375 for stills only. What most clients don't take into consideration is the state of camera readiness of a home. I shot a beautiful home last week where the 2 inch wood blinds were sagging so badly all I could do was raise all of them all the way up before the shoot. It took an extra 15 to 20 mins each way to make the house cam ready. I don't get paid for that. Its just a cost of doing business. I send a "To Do" list of things for a home owner to check off to help prepare a home for photography but it only helps in about 30% of the shoots ....but those shoots are a pleasure.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

If I was working on my own, as you apparently are, I'd be on the full-HDR bandwagon ASAP because the results are always fabulous compared to single shots with flash. I make about half of what you do by working for a national company though, so you can see my reluctance to do any more than I currently am. I'm at about 60-90 minutes for the shoot which typically includes 25 stills and 4 panoramas of 12 vertical shots each, then 120 minutes of post at the office before uploading via an FTP client to the company where they stitch the pans, make minor adjustments to my stills, and host the tour online. They provide the client MLS sized files, 8X10 sized files, branded tour with realtor name and address on it, unbranded tour for MLS, and a YouTube video tour that is the same as the Flash tours.

I could actually reduce my post time in half if I trusted them to do post as well as I demand of myself. I get rave reviews from my realtors so I don't want to lose that because they request me specifically now instead of another area shooter that works for the same company.

I recently found a company that sells a little box that connects to any Canon camera, you set a perfect exposure and focus in manual mode, then push a button on the little box and it takes the perfect exposure plus I think it's 9 or 11 (I don't remember at the moment) more HDR variations. When you're finished you upload the whole shoot to them and their computer processes the HDRs to perfection. You look at the thumbnails of everything you shot and buy only the ones you like for $1 each and download them back to you in high-res. From what I've seen of their examples gallery, the resulting HDRs are fabulous and the only post needed might be cropping and resizing. So a 25 stills package would cost me $25 to have it completed to theoretical perfection with almost no post needed.

It looks like a VERY cool setup but not for what I'm being paid currently. They also sell a brand new Canon T3i with a 10-20mm ultra wide Sigma zoom and their little box built into the body and a single button added on the body to trigger it. I'm not sure how that affects the Canon warranty but it's an option. In your self-employed situation one of these rigs would shave 90+90 minutes off of each of your shoots and you might be able to jam 4 into a day.

I agree about the time wasted on home readiness. Soap bottles, refrigerator hangings, shampoo bottles, bathroom throw rugs, robes, used towels, knick-knacks by the hundreds, bedrooms full of random children's toys piled high, power extension cords across the front of furniture, etc. People are numb to these things because they live there but the camera sees everything in its crude reality. I many times end up working with the realtor to move furniture if it's not too big, moving bright colored pool toys, putting away garden hoses, etc.

The thing I've been having problems with very often recently is ceiling flood light bulbs that have been out for months but the residents either don't notice or they've been too lazy to replace them and forgot they were out. So I end up with a kitchen with 6 working and two not. Not two side by side but causing shadows in areas where it should be bright over a counter top or snack bar. Then somebody has to go find bulbs (harder if the residents aren't home) and the realtor or I end up climbing up on the marble counter tops and putting in new bulbs for 9 or 10 foot ceilings. Sometimes they're so high we can't reach them and I have to increase area brightness in post and paint in a working light bulb with a "dodge" brush which isn't perfect but there's no choice. I had a house last week with 5 ceiling bulbs out in 3 areas of the house. 3 were in cathedral ceilings and I had to post edit my butt off to get it to look right.

I enjoy what I'm doing, even though it's time consuming and not as profitable as I'd like. Others are out in the 95 degree heat or killing their backs standing in a convenience store or stocking at WalMart as a part time job while I get to see amazingly cool huge homes, meet new people, work in a professional field with mostly nice realtors (notice I said mostly), and sit at home after the shoot(s) with my computer processing my creative output while taking frequent breaks to be with my wife and toddler whenever I want.

I wish I was in an area where I could be self-employed and make $375 a day shooting stills only. I really don't like doing panoramas but they are a necessary evil currently. Because this area was the #2 worst hit in the U.S. during the 2008 collapse (Las Vegas was #1) it hasn't recovered like other parts of the country yet. Things are still rather slow although building slowly. My goal is to break out to fully self-employed after making enough contacts who love my work so they want to work with me exclusively.

Where do you post your tours? Are you working with RTV or someone like that to use their hosting and advertising advantages that help the clients, doing your own hosting, or just handing over your work to the realtor to do what they want?