big-guy Loc: Peterborough Ontario Canada

Ditto

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

fthomas Loc: Philippines

Beagleman and Jerry I hear what you are saying and in some ways agree. PalePictures makes some excellent points and I would encourage everyone to go take a look at his website. I aspire to produce images such as his - excellent work.

Beagleman, there will always be the person who posts seldom if ever and feels the need to trash someone else's work. That is not my desire for this site nor will I participate in such kind of moronic conduct. It didn't help you and left a sour taste in your mouth and rightfully so.

I think I will start a thread something along the lines of:

The Hidden Cost to Great Images

It has nothing to do with equipment in my opinion, though the right equipment can certainly help you communicate your vision more clearly just as good post processing software and an excellent workflow and knowledge of what can be done can bring images that are close to awesome into their own right!

A poorly shot image is not going to be improved even incrementally in post processing. The image starts far before the shutter is ever tripped!

Beagleman, go out and take a look at what Corel has to offer. The cost is far less than Photoshop and it is very good software with an easy to understand user interface. I used it for a couple of years before jumping into CS5 and now CS6. I too, like Palepictures utlize plugins from NIK. They make life extremely interesting from a creative standpoint and accomplish things in Photoshop that could be done there alone, but my learning curve isn't there yet.

I want to improve my artistry, photography and how it communicates to the viewer!

Is anyone with me? I can only hope so!

fthomas Loc: Philippines

Jerry you make an excellent point, but for me - I covet constructive critiques and comments regardless of where I post my image.

I enjoy the easy going environment of UHH and certainly don't want to change that. It is great to make friends here and good for us all as we learn from one another.

Regardless, there is a cost to improvement in our photography and it isn't equipment. The greatest cost is in time shooting and time learning. Where you learn from is up to the individuals desires and taste. For me I devour everything I can get my hands on. I don't agree with everything nor do I rush out and buy the latest lens, studio strobe or whatever is being pushed.

I have limited equipment and resources so I must make the most of what I do have. That is my challenge and I am sure it is the same for many here regardless of their experience level. You can't own everything nor will it lift your images to a place of true artistry.

Beagleman Loc: Indiana

Thanks fthomas, I will check out Corel.

--Beagleman

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

I agree completely. I like most of the pictures I take, but when I see some gems posted here, mine look like trash. Receiving constructive comments is definitely the best way to improve, provided they are actually constructive.

If I post a picture of a sunset, I'm just posting a picture of a sunset, and I don't expect people to tell me how bad it is. If I post the same picture and ask why a certain area is blown out or too dark, then I would expect constructive comments.

2bob Loc: Sydney, Australia

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

The photos at this site are clearly good.

However, don't look closely at the scores (highest 99.8 and lowest 80.0), which are used to sort the photos and provide a threshold for posting.

You can't rely on the comments either since none of them seem to be constructive (nice shot, very cool, etc.). They look a lot like the comments you see on this site.

You might get more useful feedback from a local camera club where, contrary to what you might expect, you will hear more honest criticism face-to-face from you peers.

Dback4430 Loc: Lockport Il

If its posted in the gallery section , I had assumed that it was to share the enjoyment that the posting party felt when the shot was captured. Sometimes there are questions posted with them. There is other places for the tearing down and picking apart photos to have every flaw exposed. Not to mention , opinions vary. What is a great shot to some is never a great shot to all.
Contrary to popular belief , there are photos that you can look at and go " wow" and simply enjoy it without tearing it apart.

emmons267 Loc: Arizona, Valley of the Sun

I'm impressed by your technical skills. Unfortunately, I find the subject matter too static and sterile - lacking dynamics, emotion or surprise. Again I appreciate your skills, while at the same time I find your narcissistic arrogance rather unfortunate.

coolhoosier Loc: Dover, NH, USA

First, realize that not everything the critic says is necessarily "correct" -- you have to use your judgement.

Second, a fair minority of critics suffer from a distinct lack of tact. It's not that they shouldn't offer critical observations, but that they too often forget how those critiques can affect the psyche of the photographer, particularly a new photographer.

Third, to the critics, try to give the critique an aire of encouragement. At least the photographer had the guts to put the photo up for review, don't rip them to the point that there's no enthusiasm left. Oh, and if you point out a flaw or shortcoming, try to give some advice on a way to reduce or eliminate the flaw and improve the image

To those looking for criteria. There are no absolutes, but there are some guidelines. Below are twelve criteria used by the Professional Photographers of America to judge images in competition:

1.Impact is the sense one gets upon viewing an image for the first time. Compelling images evoke laughter, sadness, anger, pride, wonder or another intense emotion.

2.Creativity is the external expression of the imagination of the maker by using the medium to convey an idea, message or thought.

3.Style is defined in a number of ways. It might be defined by a specific genre or simply be recognizable as the characteristics of how a specific artist applies light to a subject. It can impact an image in a positive manner when the subject matter and the style are appropriate for each other, or it can have a negative effect when they are at odds.

4.Composition is important to the design of an image, bringing all of the visual elements together in concert to express the purpose of the image. Proper composition holds the viewer in the image and prompts the viewer to look where the creator intends. Effective composition can be pleasing or disturbing, depending on the intent of the image maker.

5.Print Presentation affects an image by giving it a finished look. The mats and borders used should support and enhance the image, not distract from it.

6.Center of Interest is the point or points on the image where the imagemaker wants the viewer to stop as they view the image. There can be primary and secondary centers of interest. Occasionally there will be no specific center of interest and the entire scene collectively serves as the center of interest.

7.Lighting (the use and control of light) refers to how dimension, shape and roundness are defined in an image. Whether the light applied to an image is manmade or natural, proper use of lighting should enhance an image.

8.Subject Matter should always be appropriate to the story being told in an image.

9.Color Balance supplies harmony to an image. An image in which the tones work together effectively supporting the image, can enhance its emotional appeal. Color balance is not always harmonious and can be used to evoke diverse feelings for effect.

10.Technical Excellence is the print quality of the image itself as it is presented for viewing. Sharpness, exposure, printing, mounting, and correct color all speak to the qualities of the physical print.

11.Technique is the approach used to create the image. Printing, lighting, posing, paper selection and other elements are part of the technique applied to an image.

12.Storytelling refers to the ability of the image to evoke imagination. One beautiful thing about art is that each viewer might collect his own message or read her own story in an image.

It's no accident that technical excellence, technique, and storytelling are the last three listed rather than the first. That by no means says that these aren't important, only that there are other aspects the either singly or as a group may be more important.

I've wasted enough bandwidth for now, so I'll let the bands contract for a while.

oldtool2 Loc: South Jersey

Note: Long, sorry if I am rambling too much.

When I first joined UHH I quite often posted photos asking for C&C. I would then follow with a statement something like “This is how I learn”. I now don’t post nearly as many photos as I did. The reason is simple. Often I would not get any, or few, replies that really helped me. Sometimes I would get replies such as “very nice “ or “I like them” or “nice shots Jim” but not the critique or criticism I was hoping to receive. Don’t get me wrong, statements such as those make all of us feel good but they really don’t help me.

I am not looking for “your photos are crap” or terrible either. A statement such as I feel the photo is a little over exposed or I think you over sharpened it in your PP along with an explanation is helpful. It gives me something to think about and work on. A little while back I posted some shots of a GBH taken at long range. It was suggested I cropped the photo too tight. The poster suggested I open up the crop and show some of the branches he was sitting on. I tried it and liked the results, and really appreciated the posters thoughts. That is what I was looking for; I learned something and my photos were improved upon. Another poster suggested I crop vertically instead of horizontally. I rarely crop that way but it did improve that particular photo. This is the C&C I am looking for but unfortunately this is not what we normally get.

I am not a professional and do not claim to be a good photographer. I do agree though that those of you out there that are do need to post some of your better shots at times to give others a higher bar to shoot for! When I post a photo that you decide is worth your time to help me with, show me an example of what you are trying to explain to me. Show me that “higher bar” I need to be shooting for! I for one will go for it! I love a challenge and do learn from them.

There are some very good photographers here, not just picture takers but true photographers on this site. Amateurs such as myself find seeing your work extremely helpful at times! I for one need to see that “higher bar” I am trying to shoot for, and really appreciate it when one of those photos get posted.

Thank you in advance to those that are willing to take your time to try to teach us, and for giving us a higher bar to shoot for! I for one really do appreciate it, even if I may not say so at the time. UHH has become a great teaching site. I hope it continues to be so.

Jim D

TheeGambler Loc: The green pastures of Northeast Texas

Sure it is nice to strive to be better at everything we do, but
I think it is great to post "nice, cute" photos. Many people enjoy taking photos but they are not aspiring professionals that are looking to produce magazine covers. They, too, spend money on advertisers.

If this site depended only on "the professionals" to maintain its number of needed "clicks" their numbers would decrease substantially.

There should be a friendly section like "Gallery" for the "nice" photos. The pros can post their "works of art" in another place... if they want to have an "exclusive section." Those that would like to have some critique can post in the section where they expect to be told what is wrong with their photos and learn. Different people have different expectations about how they want to use the UH.

Those that complain about the "non-pros" posting here, should rethink that attitude.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

:thumbup:

waremick Loc: New Hampshire

I agree that the bar needs to be high. But..don't discourage those that still aspire to more. How about a tiered rating system with encouragement and a bit of instruction to reach the next level. Something along the lines of a karate belt rating system.

bull drink water Loc: pontiac mi.

some of us here aspire to be just better picture takers,recognize that the talents and aspirations of those on this forum run the gamut of a-z.