avendano27 Loc: Pleasanton, California

You need to check your 60D manual, I'm not sure it emits red light when focusing but I just took a picture with my 5D Mk II and 580EX II in the dark here in California. The 5D emitted red crossed lights (just like my Sony P&S) to aid in focusing and the picture came out perfect.

Jackinthebox Loc: travel the world

Page 16, build in flash focus AF assist beam, page 79 and page 130. Different subject, from blinding your model/subject person when the 580 is located remote to prevent just that. The pop up blinds your subject just to fire the slave unit. The firing signal from the camera to the slave needs to be invisable. Look at Amazon - Canon remote flash trigger. I like the looks of Wireless Flash Trigger CT-04 & 4 Receivers For Nikon SpeedLite, Canon SpeedLite, Olympus, Pentax, Sigma, Sunpak, Vivitar & Other Flashes by Neewer
Buy new: $35.22


I like to hear if anyone is using this. Now, go to bed and get some sleep. It is noon here so I can do this all day but you need some rest.

Dria Loc: Ohio

You have me wondering...
my p&s Panasonic Lumix (FZ8) "only" shoots an IR focus beam also (in the dark) before a flash. That is how you said your Sony W35 does it... I wonder if the p&s Canons do that too and it is just the D-slrs that do the little strobe thing to focus "pre flash"- perhaps that is for the Canon to get a exposure reading for how much flash it needs to properly illuminate the scene? After all my p&s only has only 4 setting for flash-- off- auto- soft- forced on. Now I am going to have to do some googling.

Jackinthebox Loc: travel the world

Further investigation here, now it is dark outside, reveal some interesting facts:
The 580 behaves very different when mounted on the 60D thus taking the place of the pop up flash v/s being used as a remote slave unit. The 580 when mounted on the 60D gets needed flash exposure value and perhaps focus info via HORIZONTAL or VERTICAL red stripes from the red panel on the 580. Thus there is no visible blinding annoying pre-flash.
The 580 when used remote as a slave unit gets the needed info from a (blinding-anoying) pre=flash fired by the pop-up on the camera.
With the 60D Mode Dial in Auto or P it is behaving much like my sony W35. As such it fires a series of Red beams, from the red panel on the 580, for focusing and flash amount, with some differences.
When the mode dial is in AUTO the camera mounted 580 fires a series of (very vague) VERTICAL red stripes,. They set the focus and the flash value when the shutter button is pressed half way. When the shutter button is totally depressed it fires the mounted 580 flash and takes a perfect picture.
With the mode dial in P it works the same but the red stripes are now Horizontal.
Kind of the same as the little Sony except the sony provides enough red light to enable you to frame the subject on the view finder screen.
The red beams etc are similar in the other mode settings
Thus the 60D with the 580 mounted on the camera takes the shot as expected but it is not possible to frame the subject when the subject is in the dark.

Now, with the 580 remote as a slave unit:
With the mode dial in P, (no flash control in AUTO), and the internal pop up extended. The shutter half way down produces the annoying/blinding test flash that seems to only be used for setting the focus and the flash exposure value, for the remote 580. No red stripes from the 580. Pressing the shutter full down will then fire the remote 580. It will also blind your subject.
Canon has some work to do.
Amazing but true.

avendano27 Loc: Pleasanton, California

There is a way to disable the built-in pop-out flash in the camera menu.

Jackinthebox Loc: travel the world

And the remote flash will still work?

avendano27 Loc: Pleasanton, California

"And the remote flash will still work?"

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the 60D and I don't have the built-in pop up flash on my 5D Mk II. My guess is, probably not.
My setup for table top still life, I have a long coiled Canon compatible ETLL cord that I connect to my remote 580EX II as my main light and master. My second 580EX II is my fill light, also remote but wireless and is controlled as slave by the master.
I could have eliminated the long coiled cord by using radio triggers but my setup on tabletop indoors works fine for me, at least for now.

CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver

I think you will discover that the red stripes are just focus-assist. There is no way that they can provide exposure information. (Although since they aid focus, that may provide distance information.) Both the Nikon and Canon systems are alike in this regard - they require a pre-flash for the camera's metering system to determine exposure.
When you press the shutter button, the flash fires that pre-flash at a known power level. I believe for Canon that it is around 30%. Since the camera knows what the power level was, it can evaluate the exposure and know how much to increase or decrease the power to get a good exposure. So after firing, metering and evaluating, the shutter opens and make the image. It happens REALLY fast.

Why the pop-up causes a different timing, I do not know.

Jackinthebox Loc: travel the world

Sounds like you have a nice setup that you are comfortable with and it works for you. I am not unhappy with the equipment I have but I thought it was capable of doing more then it is able to. Some wise man on this forum once said that we should learn well to use the stuff we have before just throwing money at it . that was good advice and I am trying to stick to it before I invest more in radio transmitters and receivers or even long cords. I do appreciate input from you and others as always……..Jack