Horseart Loc: Alabama

[quote=Irene45]

Like you. I often make the oooh and ahhhh comments because I just can't help ooooohing and aaahhhing and want the person to know how much I really like their work. I do not give compliments unless I mean it and I, being a pitiful failure at photography, am certainly NOT qualified to critique! Would that mean that I shouldn't come here and look?....(and oooh and ahhh?)
:-(

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

English Wolf, I'm a little confused by the last two paragraphs. Maybe I'm reading something that's not really here. Are you saying that unless I have some constructive critique to give, that I shouldn't make any comment? I agree with what you've posted, we don't learn much when the obvious is stated over and over again without giving the person some ideas to try, like what f-stop to use, etc. I don't feel qualified to give that type of suggestion. But I do know when I like, and when a photo appeals to me, I like to let that person know that I enjoyed looking at their photo.[/quote]

What’s important is that the feedback you give is honest. It doesn’t matter if it’s from a technical perspective of just one of “I really like that shot”. What makes a photo work is really very simple, does the viewer like it. Each viewer comes to their conclusion based on what they believe makes up a good shot and that changes from viewer to viewer. Some folks are very technically oriented and they look for different things than a viewer who is looking for the story the photo tells, someone else may focus on color and contrast. We’re all different and we all look at life from our sense of what we like and don’t like. As long as the feedback is honest it will be helpful regardless of the point of view. It’s up the shooter to determine what to do with the critique and or criticism. If you want to offer technical advice that’s great if you want to just say “whoa, great shot” that great too after all sometimes a simple atta boy can be just as helpful as a fistful of technical data. JMHO of course.

Roger Hicks Loc: Aquitaine

Absolutely! We are all racked by self-doubt from time to time, but equally, we have to recognize that we don't invariably receive useful advice. From http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps%20critique.html

"Responsibility for success and failure is equally shared between the critic/appraiser and the photographer. It's true that some critics are inherently better than others, but it's also true that some photographers make the critic's job a lot easier."

Others make it more difficult, because, as English Wolf points out, they don't always want anything except uncritical admiration. From the same source (from when Frances and I were doing photo critiques on the Leica stand at Arles):

"The very worst portfolio we ever saw consisted of low-quality colour photocopies, several images to a sheet, with severe (and variable) colour casts. The photographer wanted our advice on how to get these published in a book. When we pointed out that the first thing she needed to do was to make the presentation a good deal more attractive, she airily said, "Oh, they can clean that up at the printing stage." Possibly; possibly not. There was no evidence in her presentation that the quality ever could be anything other than abysmal, and besides, why would anyone bother to clean up rubbish?"

Quite honestly, I forget what the pictures were of, because when the technical quality is so awful that it completely overrides the subject matter, there's not a lot of point in going further. Besides, that wasn't her question. Her question was, "How do I approach a publisher," and she didn't want to hear the answer.

Cheers,

R.

ltruex Loc: Waco TX

I didn't come prepared for such a neat topic...boy what you miss when you go to work. Nice subject Wolf :thumbup: and I'm of the camp the rule of thirds has been a redifining of the golden rule of Phi as found in renaissance art and most with architecture where lines space in a numerical value as they receed into the distance on a two plane surface. And I know that will throw gasoline on an already hot subject. But seriously if you don't apply this Phi Matrix into a composition of telephone poles or fence lines that stair-step into the beyond in your image it will seem out of place Da Vinci exhibit the talent but the founder escapes me, though "Fibonacci numbers found in nature" if googled will assist in some definition. Now all that said I too don't agree to being a rule follower, but find I use it when a I have an art subject that requires the rule...That could be why my works are not famous but to myself and that is all that counts to me :thumbup: Pepper wrote "What’s important is that the feedback you give is honest. It doesn’t matter if it’s from a technical perspective of just one of “I really like that shot”. What makes a photo work is really very simple, does the viewer like it." And I would like to recompose my thinking to ask if Pepper a person who is here to learn this art would provide images we may enjoy or help guide your understanding in the right direction. Please Pepper understand we at times like to flex our opinions...but always willing to help someone like yourself when the need arise. L3

ltruex Loc: Waco TX

Elle, I quote your post, becuase at the bottom you post a link...and my Internet anti virus "Kaspersky 2011" has alerted and refused me admittance due to malicous link...Just letting you know what I encountered. L3

English_Wolf Loc: Near Pensacola, FL

Irene
You have every right and should let folks know that you like their picture. This not is C&C but a simple statement of appreciation. It is needed as positive reinforcement and there never will be anything wrong with that, even if the picture is not pleasant to others.

C&C is about giving a constructive advice, not to berate folks who did not follow this or that rule yet this is what I saw in a many posts one 'critic' even calling the other person dumb for not using a specific rule.

(other than the ooooh and aaaah) sentence is directed toward those who post ONLY to get this reaction. The first part is to try to pass the message that folks want an honest opinion with the advice needed so that they can improve. They know something is wrong, they just do not know what. This is where CONSTRUCTIVE enters.

The poster knows there is a problem with the focus or lighting, it is usually obvious, but other things are troubling this person and they want to know what.

ltruex Loc: Waco TX

Poison Ivey, I liked this image before I overlaid the PhiMatrix and found it to be remarkably accurate :shock: You knew this was a good composition, but did you know it was that close?:thumbup:

ltruex Loc: Waco TX

Elle, what ever you did the link is now functional and no warnings from my Internet anti virus software...L3

gonate Loc: sacramento,calif

I dont think I have anything to add to this conversation.It appears to have covered it all.
gonate. thank you. now I will do what I want.

neil43

Thanks for the appraisal excursion. It was very illuminating.

pokerman Loc: Originally Oklahoma, Now Santa Clara, Ca.

I am not addicted to the rule of thirds. If I do intend to use it, I get the image in the camera, whether I used "thirds", or not. Then I crop to whatever looks good to me, "thirds" or not. Don't miss the shot while wasting time trying to compose using "thirds" Always get the image, and then crop the way you want the final print to look

pokerman Loc: Originally Oklahoma, Now Santa Clara, Ca.

I am not addicted to the rule of thirds. If I do intend to use it, I get the image in the camera, whether I used "thirds", or not. Then I crop to whatever looks good to me, "thirds" or not. Don't miss the shot while wasting time trying to compose using "thirds" Always get the image, and then crop the way you want the final print to look

pokerman Loc: Originally Oklahoma, Now Santa Clara, Ca.

I am not addicted to the rule of thirds. If I do intend to use it, I get the image in the camera, whether I used "thirds", or not. Then I crop to whatever looks good to me, "thirds" or not. Don't miss the shot while wasting time trying to compose using "thirds" Always get the image, and then crop the way you want the final print to look

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

At this point in my photographic journey for me to post my pictures would be nothing less than an exercise in self abuse. I’m learning a great deal by looking and listening for now. Example; after spending some time here I took a picture and wrote down what I thought was wrong with the shot. I then posted it to see if my assessment was on track with what some of you thought. This turned out to be a very helpful exercise and one I will employ again as I move forward. Today I know very little tomorrow I’ll know a little more and by this time next year I’ll either be posting a lot of shots or I’ll have sold my camera. We’ll see.

tomfr Loc: Brevard N.C.

It seems to me feedback from websites regarding critiques, in next to useless. No one knows how experienced the viewer is. I am inclined to believe most folks are looking for some sort of kudos for their work. Most viewers will not give an honest opinion, simply a pat on the back. I see this all the time in photo clubs, no honest feedback, especially true, if several members have recently attended a workshop,or are trying to emulate the photographer d'jour.
I wouldn't mind on- line critiques, but let the critic put down their bonifides,in other words, how long they have been shooting images.

tomfr