Lightroom Organization (Page 4): This is a key point. When you back up your Lightroom catalog (as it will nag you to do) it DOES NOT BACK UP YOUR PHOTO FILES. You have to do that...

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

MtnMan wrote:

rpavich wrote:

Remember!!! You aren't "moving" them...just "importing them" so LR knows where they are.

This is a key point. When you back up your Lightroom catalog (as it will nag you to do) it DOES NOT BACK UP YOUR PHOTO FILES. You have to do that separately with a back up program.

Right, I backup all my data files to a couple of external drives, using SyncBack.

Searcher Loc: Kent, England

jerryc41 wrote:

mikemilton wrote:

jerryc41 wrote:

Searcher wrote:

A clarification:

Lightroom does NOT import images nor does it move them around by it's own violition.

LR "import" looks at the image on the harddrive, copies the image to its own preview database, copies the Exif data to its own database, makes an entry into its database as to location of the image and compiles all that information into a Lightroom Catalogue. Any changes you make to the location of an image, providing it is completed within the Lightroom environment, is recorded in the database.
If an image is moved in the Operating System (Windows = Explorer, Mac = ?????) the changed location is not recorded in Lightroom. When you try to open an image in LR which has been moved in the OS, the image will show as the Lightroom preview, but that image cannot be processed because LR does not know where you have moved it to, thus the "missing image" messages.
If you make alterations to an image in LR, the catalogue will record those changes. The original image as stored on the hardrive is untouched. So in Ligtroom, you can edit and crop to your hearts content, but if you open the image in Picassa or Irfanview or whatever other graphics program you have, those edits you did in Lightroom will not be there. The originals are not altered.
If the originals are jpg or tiffs, all the changes are stored in the LR catalogue, if the images are raw files, the changes are stored in xmp sidecar files.
If you move a raw file (by means other than within Lightroom), and forget to move the xmp file with the picture file, then your changes may be lost on your harddrive and you could end up in a bit of a pickle, especially if you have moved many images.

Always move images within Lightroom
Always backup your catalogue
Always export finished images if you want to work on them in a program not linked to Lightroom.

If you install Lightroom you are installing the means to manage your images, hundreds or thousands of your pictures can be located, catalogued, named, put into collections (albums), even geotagged, but remember Lightroom is forgiving and can be also forgetfull.

A clarification: br br Lightroom does NOT import ... (show quote)

When I use LR to make changes to an image, I use the Export command (Ctrl-Shift-E in Windows) and save it to a different folder than where the original is located. If I were to export it to the same folder and use the same file name, it would replace the original image, right?

quote=Searcher A clarification: br br Lightroom ... (show quote)

1) Lightroom does not import the actual images into the catalog (correct, but I've worded it more precisely)

1a) Lightroom can be set up to (automatically) create a set of directories which it manages and import the image files to them. Many people do this directly from the camera as it saves them the step of making up their own directories and just referencing the files. Personally, I do not like the LR directory conventions so I take the extra step of making my own.

1b) the easiest way to work on an image in another program is to use "edit in". This will create an exported image (with or without LR edits, your choice) and automatically add it to th catalog when you save and close the other program. This saves you managing the files separately.

2) There really isn't any point in exporting edited images except for a specific use (like mailing it or uploading it). You can save yourself space and confusion by only keeping images that are in your catalog (including virtual copies). This takes no space and keeps every version organized, together and tagged. I typically delete exported images after use since they can be remade at any time from the catalog

2b) Lightroom warns you about overwriting. So you can put exported images in the original location easily and safely. This makes adding them to the catalog and backing them up much easier if you actually want to keep them as full image files (rather than virtual copies)

quote=jerryc41 quote=Searcher A clarification: b... (show quote)

Ooooh! My brain is starting to hurt.

So, if exporting is not necessary, take me through the steps. I just modified an image in LR, and I'll want to go back to it in a few days. How do I keep both the modified and the original copies on my computer?

quote=mikemilton quote=jerryc41 quote=Searcher ... (show quote)

The original copies are always there, unless you NEED an original for a special purpose, you can forget about them. When you open lightroom the images you see are with all the edits you have done so far. Just carry on editing until you need one out for web or email, then just export.

To print an image, you do not have to export, just use the print module.

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

Searcher wrote:

If you export a corrected image to the same folder, and even if in the export dialogue you have tchecked the "Overwrite without Warning"box, a dialogue opens giving you the choice of "Save As" (new name) or going backk to Lightroom.

I stand corrected!

Seems weird if you have the over write without warning checked it still asks you...lol..

roberts41 Loc: Atlanta, GA

The modified and original will both be in LR. You don't have to do anything. One point that I haven't seen made yet is, if you work on a raw file in LR (use LR's editing tools), it doesn't create a new catalog image. Rather, it just exhibits the updated raw file. Remember, tho, that if you like what you see after update, then you probably should export it as a new catalog image. Otherwise, if you go back to that same raw file later, it will still be in the update state. To get it back to the original, just click on RESET in the Develop module. It will take it back to the original raw file. If you save your work after the first editing session, you'll still have that as well.

mikemilton

Mousie M wrote:

Are the keywords held in the catalogue or does LR put them into the Exif data in the image file?

They are kept in the catalog and they can be 'synched' to the original file. They can also be added to an exported file's EXIF

wtw2143 Loc: West Hempstead, NY

Jerry, here is a good tutorial that may help you with LR4. Check out this link; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OmfMzYjujE&list=PL7pJBk4n01iYjJy4i2Y_BQUk7KKiJGFtl&index=17

mikemilton

jerryc41 wrote:

Ooooh! My brain is starting to hurt.

So, if exporting is not necessary, take me through the steps. I just modified an image in LR, and I'll want to go back to it in a few days. How do I keep both the modified and the original copies on my computer?

LR actually does not modify files. It keeps a list of the actions you take (in the catalog) and re-applies them each time. LR does make a preview with the edits applied to save some processing.

If you want to see both original and processed entries, the best approach is, before processing, 'create a virtual copy'. Then process the copy. It will look like you have two files but, in fact, you just have two entries in the catalog. Each entry points to the same original file but each has a different list of processing activities to apply. You can have as many virtual copies as you like.

If you want a 'real' file with the processing applied, export the virtual copy you prefer.

One CAUTION. If you do this, you *really* want to back up the catalog because that is the only place all you work in processing the virtual copies exists. Also, be sure to back it up to a different drive (or copy it once the backup is created).

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

Searcher wrote:

The original copies are always there, unless you NEED an original for a special purpose, you can forget about them. When you open lightroom the images you see are with all the edits you have done so far. Just carry on editing until you need one out for web or email, then just export.

To print an image, you do not have to export, just use the print module.

Amazing! I modified an image and then closed LR. When I reopened it, both the original and the modified image were there. I'm so used to continually saving things in Windows, that it goes against the grain to exit without saving.

mikemilton

jerryc41 wrote:

quote=Searcher The original copies are always the... (show quote)

The 'trick' to understanding this is that the catalog is a database. Databases are updated immediately as events occur. So, they actually are 'saved' but without your attention.

This is one reason that prople take snapshots as they process. Since the DB is a 'living' thing this makes it easier to get back to some point in processing. What I do, instead, is to make another virtual copy and follow two paths to a final image. That way I can look at the outcomes of both paths to directly compare and pick the one I like.

Searcher Loc: Kent, England

jerryc41 wrote:

quote=Searcher The original copies are always the... (show quote)

This become a habit after a while, in other programs I sometime close without saving!!! I blame it on Lightroom.

Searcher Loc: Kent, England

drkeene wrote:

I have some 20,000 photos on Picasa and will be converting to Lightroom soon... Actually I have been procrastinating out of apprehension of the need of becoming involved in a painful and drawn out re-cataloging of my entire edited library of photos. It sounds like it might be a much simpler thing!

If I recall correctly, when you edit in Picassa the originals are popped into a separate folder. If you have 20000 edited images and a further 20000 originals in separate folders (within each "mainstream" folder), cataloguing in Lightroom could get a little tricky.
I would suggest that to start with, you only import one folder containing edited images together with the folder containing the originals just to see what is going to happen and how the cataloguing hierchy works out.

tonyt Loc: North west England, UK

As a newcomer to LR4, I already had My Pictures organised by year and then folders by subject. I set up LR in folders by year and then within each year have subfolders for: SPORT; WORK; PEOPLE & PLACES; FOOTBALL; I then imported all folders for each year, then in LR moved them into the subfolders. I used tagging words for each folder as I went. So far seems to have worked out well.

Festina Lente Loc: Florida & Missouri

jerryc41 wrote:

Ooooh! My brain is starting to hurt.

So, if exporting is not necessary, take me through the steps. I just modified an image in LR, and I'll want to go back to it in a few days. How do I keep both the modified and the original copies on my computer?

You save it as a virtual image. This is a collection of all the changes you made to that image.
You can save as many virtual images of of the original as you like, naming them as you like, and they will all be there whenever you open the original untouchable image.

The only reason to physically export an image to another physical image files is to send it someplace else for printing or to share it with someone.
Otherwise all of your edited versions can be saved as virtual without taking up any disk space.
And you can pick up where you left off, go back and change anything, the possibilities seem endless and painless.
This is one the the many advantages of LR, but often misunderstood.
The whole concept of virtual images seems disarming, but it is really a beautiful and very easy to mange thing.

Festina Lente Loc: Florida & Missouri

tonyt wrote:

As a newcomer to LR4, I already had My Pictures organised by year and then folders by subject. I set up LR in folders by year and then within each year have subfolders for: SPORT; WORK; PEOPLE & PLACES; FOOTBALL; I then imported all folders for each year, then in LR moved them into the subfolders. I used tagging words for each folder as I went. So far seems to have worked out well.

The real test to one's cataloging system is how quickly and easily you can locate a particular photo - even one you have forgotten was there.
The larger and older your image collection, the more important this becomes.

Do you have any photos of Aunt Amy with cousin Bob that were taken in Seattle? That is a 10 second search if you have things organized well from the get go.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

jerryc41 wrote:

I've been using LR3 & 4 for quite a while, but I've never gotten involved with the catalog system. Let's say I want to get all my images into LR, so it can keep track of them - or whatever it does. What would I do?

I imported all mine but I have always organized my files as a "My Pictures" main folder on my hard drive with it broken down into general subject subfolders which are then broken into further defined sub-sub folders and sometimes even sub-sub-sub folders. All I did with LR4 was to tell it to import My Pictures and clicked on the button "include subfolders" that pops up in a window just before the import begins. When it imported, everything came in all at once and completely.

Be aware that LR4 only keeps track of what you have "imported" into it. If you add photos, folders, subfolders and such onto your hard drive (let's say from a memory card) using Windows Explorer or whatever Mac calls their file management, you have to tell LR4 to synchronize so it will review what's in the main folder it has already imported, look at your hard drive for a comparison, and recognize the new stuff to also import. Otherwise those photos will not show up in LR and you'll think they're lost but they aren't.

LR can directly import from the memory card when you plug it in, save them to hard drive, and skip the Windows Explorer step but I'm old school, new to LR, and still have geezer fear of doing it that way with very important work-related files. I'll work with it more with recreational fun family shots as I have time so I don't cause myself great damage if I lose something.

The one thing I fear a lot in LR4 is the "do you want to: Delete from Catalog or Delete from Drive" choice box. I am many times getting dozy at 3 a.m. while editing and could feasibly sometime click the wrong choice. I don't know yet if delete from drive is reversible in LR4 or not.