Ronbo
Loc: Okanagan falls BC. Canada
KR40 wrote:
I use a bridge camera. Presently I am re- learning and honing things used in the past with the aim of constantly improving my knowledge and skills. When I shoot, I am shooting with the goal in mind that someday I may not need to use pp to get the results I am aiming for, but in the mean time, post processing teaches me things that I might like to change or adjust the next time when I am shooting and my results also give me enjoyment in the now.
Gone are the days when we may have to toss most of our work, and have nothing to show of our hobby because something isn't just right. My choice to use the bridge cam was based on physical needs, but it still offers many options that enable me to have creative manual choices, and I enjoy my hobby and aiming for improvement while doing it. If we all would look back at our first picture we took, to where we are today, we would be surprised. which ever way you choose to use or not use p.p. really is okay. Have fun which ever way you choose.
I use a bridge camera. Presently I am re- learning... (
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KR40 how do you like your bridge cam for IQ. I'm thinking of picking up one of these.
I do occasionally but I think it is important to do this only as a last resort. Images that require little or no processing right from the cameras are desireable to ones made with the attitude, "Oh well I can always fix it in PhotoShop."
I see no harm in making the shot as you did with the full knowledge that it will need post processing. That is one reason for bracketing exposures.
I started my serious photography shooting with (reversal)slide film. The typical latitude in exposure was about 1.5 stops so I still try, but often fail, to get the exposure spot on. However, a mistake can be fixed and a botched exposure does not cost me 40 or 50 cents. I can always look at the results, right after I make the exposure and make the necessary correction. WE are so fortunate to have the many advantages of digital photography.
saycheese
Loc: By the Big Lake in West Michigan
I'm fortunate to have a lithograph of Adams's "Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexico" in our dining room. Go to
http://rcodaphotography.blogspot.com/2010/01/inspirations-24-moonrise.html to see the final print, and a straight print from the negative. Lots of PP there, and Adams knew it as he clicked the shutter.[/quote]
Fascinating article at the URL you shared. Thanks so much!!
Annie
Defiantly not - "BUT" - when composing a shot I will not pass it up if there is something in "That special" shot that can be helped with some PP.
There are so many tools available in digital editing that were not available in film work to those who did not have their own dark room.
Most all the great masters of film photograph did their own developing and did do some sort of PP in doing so.
Don't beat yourself up if you come across these shots that you know will require some sort of PP to make it what you see in your eye.
JMHO
Harvey
donrent wrote:
Actually no !
Brian in Whitby wrote:
Images that require little or no processing right from the cameras are desireable to ones made with the attitude, "Oh well I can always fix it in PhotoShop."
Is that so?
When I went to the photo exhibit at the San Diego County Fair last year and talked to the exhibiters, not a single photographer did "little or no processing."
It's my own personal opinion after talking to professional photographers here in the San Diego area over the past four years that every single one of them, bar none, use post-processing to make their photos the best they can be. I say that because of the forty or so that I have talked to, not a single one said that s/he didn't use post-processing.
Post-processing 50 years ago meant having your own darkroom and filters, different chemicals, different papers, dodging, burning, etc. Today, post-processing is much better, less expensive, less time consuming, involves less exposure to weird chemicals, and is oh so much more fun. I use Adobe Photoshop CS6, Adobe Lightroom 4.3, Corel Photo-Paint X6, Corel PaintShop Pro X6, Corel Draw X2, and even Word 2010, all depending on what I want to do and how fast I want to do it.
Gramps
Loc: Republic of Tejas--Tomball, TX
Photographer Jim wrote:
Gramps wrote:
JudyTee23 wrote:
artBob wrote:
Often I shoot knowing I'll have to manipulate the photo, and wonder how many others do this, too. In this case, I knew the gamut in-camera could not handle what I saw, so I shot for the tracks in the snow, knowing that I'd have to adjust the curves, dodge and burn.
The experienced photographer will always visualize the finished product before making the exposure. Thus, if the scene will require extensive post processing, the photographer is prepared. That, of course, is what you did in your example.
I always teach my students that the best images begin in the mind of the photographer.
quote=artBob Often I shoot knowing I'll have to m... (
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What ever happened to Talent ?
quote=JudyTee23 quote=artBob Often I shoot knowi... (
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How can visualizing the final image and shooting accordingly be even remotely equated with lack of talent? :shock:
quote=Gramps quote=JudyTee23 quote=artBob Often... (
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If you have to ask, you have no idea!
Yep old school look for perfection straight from the camera, still hopeful after some 50 years! Rock on.
JudyTee23 wrote:
artBob wrote:
Often I shoot knowing I'll have to manipulate the photo, and wonder how many others do this, too. In this case, I knew the gamut in-camera could not handle what I saw, so I shot for the tracks in the snow, knowing that I'd have to adjust the curves, dodge and burn.
The experienced photographer will always visualize the finished product before making the exposure. Thus, if the scene will require extensive post processing, the photographer is prepared. That, of course, is what you did in your example.
I always teach my students that the best images begin in the mind of the photographer.
quote=artBob Often I shoot knowing I'll have to m... (
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I understand that National Geographic photographers are not permitted to enhance their photos other than a minimal crop. Is this true?
russelray wrote:
Brian in Whitby wrote:
Images that require little or no processing right from the cameras are desireable to ones made with the attitude, "Oh well I can always fix it in PhotoShop."
Is that so?
When I went to the photo exhibit at the San Diego County Fair last year and talked to the exhibiters, not a single photographer did "little or no processing."
It's my own personal opinion after talking to professional photographers here in the San Diego area over the past four years that every single one of them, bar none, use post-processing to make their photos the best they can be. I say that because of the forty or so that I have talked to, not a single one said that s/he didn't use post-processing.
Post-processing 50 years ago meant having your own darkroom and filters, different chemicals, different papers, dodging, burning, etc. Today, post-processing is much better, less expensive, less time consuming, involves less exposure to weird chemicals, and is oh so much more fun. I use Adobe Photoshop CS6, Adobe Lightroom 4.3, Corel Photo-Paint X6, Corel PaintShop Pro X6, Corel Draw X2, and even Word 2010, all depending on what I want to do and how fast I want to do it.
quote=Brian in Whitby Images that require little ... (
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I agree completely and find this whole 'gotta do it in the camera' thing quite strange.
To be fair tho, the post you are replying to seemed to be more about a dislike of sloppy camera work which is *not* the subject of this discussion.
The point here is about thoughtful camera work specifically intended to get a raw image that is optimal for post processing. I find that this often leads to setting that are quite different than those one would use to get an acceptable final image in camera. As just one example, the technique of exposing to the right to get the most available data does not yield an image one would use as shot but it does make the most detail available for subsequent processing. Anyone who uses this tehnique would answer yes to the original question. Anyone who avoids this technique where is is useful is simply not getting the best image they could (and why would they see that as a good thing?)
Here is a discussion of the technique
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtmlThis is absolutely intended to lead to post processing and it is a damming rebuttal to people who have a fetish about doing only what is possible with just the camera.
morris cowley wrote:
JudyTee23 wrote:
artBob wrote:
Often I shoot knowing I'll have to manipulate the photo, and wonder how many others do this, too. In this case, I knew the gamut in-camera could not handle what I saw, so I shot for the tracks in the snow, knowing that I'd have to adjust the curves, dodge and burn.
The experienced photographer will always visualize the finished product before making the exposure. Thus, if the scene will require extensive post processing, the photographer is prepared. That, of course, is what you did in your example.
I always teach my students that the best images begin in the mind of the photographer.
quote=artBob Often I shoot knowing I'll have to m... (
show quote)
I understand that National Geographic photographers are not permitted to enhance their photos other than a minimal crop. Is this true?
quote=JudyTee23 quote=artBob Often I shoot knowi... (
show quote)
Photographers must sumbit the Raw file to NG, no edits are allowed. NG does have a team of "photo editors" that adjust images for publication, that includes cropping, color adjustments, sharpening for print and a few other minor tweeks. But these adjustments are done by the magazine staff not the photographer.
Gramps wrote:
Photographer Jim wrote:
Gramps wrote:
JudyTee23 wrote:
artBob wrote:
Often I shoot knowing I'll have to manipulate the photo, and wonder how many others do this, too. In this case, I knew the gamut in-camera could not handle what I saw, so I shot for the tracks in the snow, knowing that I'd have to adjust the curves, dodge and burn.
The experienced photographer will always visualize the finished product before making the exposure. Thus, if the scene will require extensive post processing, the photographer is prepared. That, of course, is what you did in your example.
I always teach my students that the best images begin in the mind of the photographer.
quote=artBob Often I shoot knowing I'll have to m... (
show quote)
What ever happened to Talent ?
quote=JudyTee23 quote=artBob Often I shoot knowi... (
show quote)
How can visualizing the final image and shooting accordingly be even remotely equated with lack of talent? :shock:
quote=Gramps quote=JudyTee23 quote=artBob Often... (
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If you have to ask, you have no idea!
quote=Photographer Jim quote=Gramps quote=JudyT... (
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You're right, I have no idea how one can claim that visualizing the final image and shooting with that finalized image in mind (with the plan to do either wet or digital processing of the capture) is a sign of a lack of talent. It is an absurd statement. I would welcome your explanation. In the process of explaining try addressing Adams' "Moonrise, Hernandez" photo. Adams said in an interview that he exposed with the intention of significantly darkening the clouds above the church, and did so, going down to only 10% of the original negative. Your throw-away line would indicate that you believe that that would be an indicator that Adams lacked talent (which I think the majority would consider a ridiculous notion).
Annie_Girl wrote:
morris cowley wrote:
JudyTee23 wrote:
artBob wrote:
Often I shoot knowing I'll have to manipulate the photo, and wonder how many others do this, too. In this case, I knew the gamut in-camera could not handle what I saw, so I shot for the tracks in the snow, knowing that I'd have to adjust the curves, dodge and burn.
The experienced photographer will always visualize the finished product before making the exposure. Thus, if the scene will require extensive post processing, the photographer is prepared. That, of course, is what you did in your example.
I always teach my students that the best images begin in the mind of the photographer.
quote=artBob Often I shoot knowing I'll have to m... (
show quote)
I understand that National Geographic photographers are not permitted to enhance their photos other than a minimal crop. Is this true?
quote=JudyTee23 quote=artBob Often I shoot knowi... (
show quote)
Photographers must sumbit the Raw file to NG, no edits are allowed. NG does have a team of "photo editors" that adjust images for publication, that includes cropping, color adjustments, sharpening for print and a few other minor tweeks. But these adjustments are done by the magazine staff not the photographer.
quote=morris cowley quote=JudyTee23 quote=artBo... (
show quote)
Annie, this a good place to mention how a photographer's intent plays into the PP vs. no PP debate. NG photographers are engaged in photography as photojournalism. I would expect them to be shooting to produce the most natural and accurate image that they can. But (luckily) not all photography is meant to be photojournalism. Many shoot with the intention that the final image will be a personal interpretation of what they experienced, both sensorily and emotionally, or they shoot with the goal of creating an image that originates only in imagination. Different end goal, different approach needed.
Photographer Jim wrote:
Annie, this a good place to mention how a photographer's intent plays into the PP vs. no PP debate. NG photographers are engaged in photography as photojournalism. I would expect them to be shooting to produce the most natural and accurate image that they can. But (luckily) not all photography is meant to be photojournalism. Many shoot with the intention that the final image will be a personal interpretation of what they experienced, both sensorily and emotionally, or they shoot with the goal of creating an image that originates only in imagination. Different end goal, different approach needed.
Annie, this a good place to mention how a photogra... (
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That is a very good point. I'd like to add to it a (relevant) comment on human cognition. This is not a rant against photojournalism (which clearly has its place). We humans have a fascinating way in which we create in our minds what we think we see. The point is that this internal scene is built over time and heavily influenced, among other things, by our attention processes. This mostly happens unconsciously which is one reason why we have to really work to avoid taking a picture of a person with a tree growing out of thier head. In real life this is unimportant and not something you attend to (or see) when you are gazing at your sweetie.
So, I find it perfectly acceptable to remove a cell tower from a landscape (some of you may now start clutching your purses) because, not only is it irrelevant, but the majority of people looking at the scene in real life would not even see it and even more word not retain it in thier memory of the scene.
My argument is that, by mimicking human cognition in a well planned way, a photographer is actually making an image that is *more* true to another human's experience that would be a photojournalistic rendering. Moreover, they can give another viewer the scene as they see it which is really an important part of communicating in images. Other than as a craftsperson, the photographer is largely absent from photojournalism
Gramps
Loc: Republic of Tejas--Tomball, TX
morris cowley wrote:
JudyTee23 wrote:
artBob wrote:
Often I shoot knowing I'll have to manipulate the photo, and wonder how many others do this, too. In this case, I knew the gamut in-camera could not handle what I saw, so I shot for the tracks in the snow, knowing that I'd have to adjust the curves, dodge and burn.
The experienced photographer will always visualize the finished product before making the exposure. Thus, if the scene will require extensive post processing, the photographer is prepared. That, of course, is what you did in your example.
I always teach my students that the best images begin in the mind of the photographer.
quote=artBob Often I shoot knowing I'll have to m... (
show quote)
I understand that National Geographic photographers are not permitted to enhance their photos other than a minimal crop. Is this true?
quote=JudyTee23 quote=artBob Often I shoot knowi... (
show quote)
YUP! When you go to Yellowstone, drive the California coast, or witmess sun rising or setting, there is never a pause to reconsider if He done right! PS has become, like a lot of non indiginous plants and animals, invasive.
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