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Question on gun control.
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Jan 17, 2013 19:23:44   #
ted45 Loc: Delaware
 
sandollor wrote:
ted45 wrote:
sandollor wrote:
TimS wrote:
sandollor wrote:
jimbo70 wrote:
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” Benjamin Franklin


Guns do not provide security, they make one less secure. Live by the gun, die by the gun.


Then why do Police carry guns?


Because others have guns! Simple, no guns no death by guns.




Every society on the planet has laws both moral and legal against murder. Let me ask you a question: If we could get people to obey the laws against murder how many people would be killed by a gun?

You want to condem the tool and ignor the criminal. Is that rational?
quote=sandollor quote=TimS quote=sandollor quo... (show quote)


Murder cannot be avoided. If there were no guns no one would be murdered with a gun.
quote=ted45 quote=sandollor quote=TimS quote=s... (show quote)


Actually you are wrong. According to the FBI the murder rate in this country has been dropping over the last couple of decades. The drop in rate has not been dramatic but steady until recently with the increase in unemployment it has leveled off.

The serious studies being done indicate that the murder rate is directly related to the unemployment rate, the feeling of being in a lower class, and poverty. The Democrats in office keep promising a fix to the unemployment rate but are not delivering. They encourage and fuel the class division between the rich and the poor. Enslaving more and more people to the government dole maintains the poverty class. Maybe we should have more Democrat Control laws.

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Jan 17, 2013 19:36:11   #
ted45 Loc: Delaware
 
Bazamac wrote:
George H wrote:
sandollor wrote:
TimS wrote:
sandollor wrote:
jimbo70 wrote:
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” Benjamin Franklin


Guns do not provide security, they make one less secure. Live by the gun, die by the gun.


Then why do Police carry guns?


Because others have guns! Simple, no guns no death by guns.


Sand,
Really apparently you have not payed any attention to England, total gun ban, 35 people killed by guns. Guess that statistic puts holes in your no gun-no death premise. Please do some research before you make a dumb statement. Learn about guns, if the gun is on the table it does nothing, until a human picks it up.

George
quote=sandollor quote=TimS quote=sandollor quo... (show quote)


35? That's 35 too many, obviously, but that doesn't begin to compare with the death rate from guns in gun-happy USA. How exactly does such a relatively low level of gun related deaths blow holes in the argument that controlling the number of guns reduces the death rate from guns? Especially given that the large majority of gun related deaths in the USA are accidental and not connected to criminal activity.
quote=George H quote=sandollor quote=TimS quot... (show quote)


Why is it so hard for you Brits to understand: The majority of us here in the USA don't care what your laws are or what your crime rate is. Lower gun deaths - good for you. We are not arguing about guns -we are arguing about the loss of another freedom and another abuse of our constitution. A great many of the current Democratic party would gladly curtail our ability to participate in a forum like this but they don't have an appropriate incident like Sandy Hook to use as a banner to curtail our free speech. This school shooting just gives them an emotional situation to use for their quest to socialize our society.

What goes on here has no effect on you. Just as your drunken mobs with clubs on a Friday night have no effect on us.

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Jan 17, 2013 19:41:45   #
Flash Falasca Loc: Beverly Hills, Florida
 
TrainNut wrote:
Does anyone know what kind of guns are used to protect the Obamas? I want the same to protect my family.


Too many !!

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Jan 17, 2013 19:44:21   #
ted45 Loc: Delaware
 
Bazamac wrote:
jimbo70 wrote:
Why do those from the UK seem to think they have anything to say about the 2nd Amendment? The reason we have the 2nd Amendment was to protect the people from an oppressive government such as the one the Colonies experienced under King George of England.


Umm! Yes, ok. But I think we've moved on a little in the 200+ years since then. I know that some of you Americans can tend to fetishise the 2nd Amendment rather, but speaking for myself, I think I'm entitled to comment for no other reason than humanitarian concern. When I hear about tragic incidents such as the recent one in Newtown, it moves me to want to say something about it and some of the issues that it raises. Gun control is one of them and if my voice helps to encourage at all those good people in the USA who share my views on it then I'm happy about that. If it bothers others, you might like to think about the fact that the USA is the most powerful nation on earth and uses its power across the globe in many ways, so we might have some right to comment now and again. Feel free to disagree, but we have freedom of speech here, too, and we're perfectly entitled to make use of it.
Thank you and best wishes.
quote=jimbo70 Why do those from the UK seem to th... (show quote)


You have a valid point and a good one. However you are not seeing the real issue. Our Constitution guarantees us the freedom to live our lives without government interference. The real issue here is not guns it is a removal or restriction on our rights. We already have more control laws than anyone can count or read. None of these shootings have been performed by a person legally owning a gun. Almost all have been done by mentally disturbed people. Restricting and removing the rights of everyone to curtail the action of a small group of mentally defective people is not acceptable to us. I suspect it would not be acceptable to you either.

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Jan 17, 2013 19:44:38   #
banker1741 Loc: Iowa
 
check out the ones the guards at their kids school use. Kinda strange they get the protection but not my kids

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Jan 17, 2013 19:49:28   #
pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"
 
Flash Falasca wrote:
TrainNut wrote:
Does anyone know what kind of guns are used to protect the Obamas? I want the same to protect my family.


Too many !!


Protect the kids. It's not their fault. The other two, who cares. Granny will have to pay for her own vacations. :thumbup:

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Jan 17, 2013 19:49:47   #
ted45 Loc: Delaware
 
sandollor wrote:
WYp8riot wrote:
Quote:


If one is doing good they have no need to defend against evil. Evil to defend ones self against evil creates more evil.



So you do not believe in self defense?


I am countered often with "what do you believe" If one is doing something that they need to defend themself for doing. They are not doing good works.


Several years ago I was walking through a restaurant parking lot to my car. An addict needing money for a fix jumped up and started beating on me so he could take my money an buy a fix. I beat him off and ended up with a $1, 000 bill to fix my broken hand. How does that situation fit your last statement?

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Jan 17, 2013 19:52:48   #
OnTheFly Loc: Tennessee
 
A bullet would have been cheaper and less painful for you.
ted45 wrote:
sandollor wrote:
WYp8riot wrote:
Quote:


If one is doing good they have no need to defend against evil. Evil to defend ones self against evil creates more evil.



So you do not believe in self defense?


I am countered often with "what do you believe" If one is doing something that they need to defend themself for doing. They are not doing good works.


Several years ago I was walking through a restaurant parking lot to my car. An addict needing money for a fix jumped up and started beating on me so he could take my money an buy a fix. I beat him off and ended up with a $1, 000 bill to fix my broken hand. How does that situation fit your last statement?
quote=sandollor quote=WYp8riot quote br br If... (show quote)

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Jan 17, 2013 19:53:49   #
ted45 Loc: Delaware
 
sandollor wrote:
TimS wrote:
sandollor wrote:
WYp8riot wrote:
sandollor wrote:
eplain wrote:
wondering.... what Mosque do most of you here belong to?


Evil to stop evil creates more evil. Evil can only be stopped only by doing good.


Evil is when you deny someone the right to self defense.

Doing good is being responsible with your liberty.


If one is doing good they have no need to defend against evil. Evil to defend ones self against evil creates more evil.


Tell that to the families of 26 people who died in Newton. I doubt reading in school was evil yet evil found them. What an absurd statement.

Tell that to the 11 million people exterminated by the nazis.
quote=sandollor quote=WYp8riot quote=sandollor ... (show quote)


And you think having more guns will stop that kind of act? He probley thought he was doing good. Just like you think people having guns is a good thing.
quote=TimS quote=sandollor quote=WYp8riot quot... (show quote)


Seriously, you are trying to justify Hitler and a mass murder?

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Jan 17, 2013 19:54:37   #
pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"
 
gmcase wrote:
My new greeting sign.


Warning shots mean you need to spend more time at the range! :thumbup:

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Jan 17, 2013 19:55:03   #
ted45 Loc: Delaware
 
RixPix wrote:
Dr Grump wrote:
dixiemegapixel wrote:
I wonder who is making more profit from the gun debates? Is it the gun manufacturers? Or is it the media?




Gun manufacturers by far. Where does NRA get the money to wag Congress like a dog wags it tail? NRA has about 4 mil members, just a little over 1% of the country's population. Probably 10% of what you paid for your AK 47 went into NRA lobby purse.


The NRA has used its influence with members of Congress to take away most of the enforcement powers of the ATF. Until the ATF is empowered to enforce the current gun control laws no progress can be made.
quote=Dr Grump quote=dixiemegapixel I wonder who... (show quote)


I guess that explains Fast and Furious. It was the NRA selling guns to the cartels. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Jan 17, 2013 19:59:40   #
fotkaman Loc: Earth
 
pounder35 wrote:
TrainNut wrote:
Does anyone know what kind of guns are used to protect the Obamas? I want the same to protect my family.


You can't have them. So there!!!!! You'll be lucky if your kid's water pistol isn't taken away. Remember, water kills. :roll:


I hope you are joking... :shock:

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Jan 17, 2013 20:00:11   #
ted45 Loc: Delaware
 
ole sarg wrote:
Lets see. You are in a crowded place, a gun goes off and you calmly pull your weapon gain a sight picture and with one shot shoot the dastardly fellow. Or, do you hit the ground, relieve yourself, and pray the guy does not hit you?

More than likely the later. Have been in too many fire fights to know otherwise!


Excellent point Sarge. They all want to believe that is what they would do but when the lead is buzzing by your ear it is a whole different story. I never relieved myself, but I did shake enough afterward to get a job preparing paint at Sherwin Williams.

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Jan 17, 2013 20:16:40   #
pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"
 
ted45 wrote:
ole sarg wrote:
Lets see. You are in a crowded place, a gun goes off and you calmly pull your weapon gain a sight picture and with one shot shoot the dastardly fellow. Or, do you hit the ground, relieve yourself, and pray the guy does not hit you?

More than likely the later. Have been in too many fire fights to know otherwise!


Excellent point Sarge. They all want to believe that is what they would do but when the lead is buzzing by your ear it is a whole different story. I never relieved myself, but I did shake enough afterward to get a job preparing paint at Sherwin Williams.
quote=ole sarg Lets see. You are in a crowded pla... (show quote)


It is quite an experience to be on the other side of fire. It's happened to me twice and not in a military situation. It will definitely shake you up. :thumbup: I've also survived two tornadoes and two boats have gone under with me aboard. As you can probably guess "two" is not my lucky number. :lol: I do bet it every time I'm near a roulette wheel and it always pays off well. Go figure. I thought about buying either a two seater Miata or BMW but I'm not sure that would be wise. :roll:

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Jan 17, 2013 20:18:54   #
banker1741 Loc: Iowa
 
amen

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