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Time for Photographers to be Scared? (Editorial)
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Apr 29, 2024 01:17:41   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
The thing about AI is that it keeps getting better. Sometimes using Photoshop generative fill has been less than satisfactory, but when it has worked, which is most of the time, it has been amazing. I used to try the old Content Aware fill (non-AI) and it often gave bad results, but generative fill is a huge improvement.
Yep it has been improving but I am still glad they still have the old versions of content aware fill. Sometimes one of them still works better.

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Apr 29, 2024 12:44:48   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
The real problem is that we don't understand creativity. What makes people create new things? That has to be the ultimate goal of AI. What caused you to come up with a new idea? Was it something you ate? Something your spouse said to you? Something you learned in school 75 years ago that just popped into your meat memory because a cosmic ray triggered a neuron? How do we emulate things like that? Is it purely a random process?

A while back I mentioned the ultraviolet catastrophe in a post. I was about to add 'q.v.' to the post (latin abbreviation for 'quod vide', meaning basically 'look it up') but then Google popped into my head because that is how we all look things up these days so I 'invented' the term 'q.g.' instead ('latin' for quod Google). I can claim that I invented it because I had never seen that term before (or at least I don't remember seeing it). It doesn't mean I was the first to invent it. But I believe it counts as creativity. And I can't explain how it happened.

(I can't say that my creativity levels exceed that example very often).

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Apr 29, 2024 15:02:46   #
druthven
 
terryMc wrote:
Do you see any difference between an image generated entirely by AI and one that uses AI to remove and replace defects or unwanted distractions from an original photograph?


Oh yes I definitely do. A photograph regardless of the amount of processing, sharpening, dehaze, denoise etc is still the work of a cognizant human being because the photographer has control of the changes and thus totally owns the final result. The final result whether deemed to be either good or bad is a result of the photographer's artistic talent and their vision. For me a AI generated image demonstrates neither talent or vision and is worthless. What would you rather have, an AI generated Monet or a honest to goodness Monet?

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Apr 29, 2024 15:49:12   #
frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.
 
druthven wrote:
Oh yes I definitely do. A photograph regardless of the amount of processing, sharpening, dehaze, denoise etc is still the work of a cognizant human being because the photographer has control of the changes and thus totally owns the final result. The final result whether deemed to be either good or bad is a result of the photographer's artistic talent and their vision. For me a AI generated image demonstrates neither talent or vision and is worthless. What would you rather have, an AI generated Monet or a honest to goodness Monet?
Oh yes I definitely do. A photograph regardless of... (show quote)


I agree with most of what you say.

The exception is "For me a AI generated image demonstrates neither talent or vision and is worthless". It does take talent, and knowledge, and a vision. Therefore it has worth.

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Apr 29, 2024 16:11:23   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
frankraney wrote:
I agree with most of what you say.

The exception is "For me a AI generated image demonstrates neither talent or vision and is worthless". It does take talent, and knowledge, and a vision. Therefore it has worth.


I think the AI generated images that demonstrate the most creativity are the ones with the most detailed descriptions. I have seen some AI images from simple basic text which the AI seemed to add random elements or styles. That might be fun, to see what the AI comes up with, but I think it would be a more personal artistic statement if you go into detail about what you want, and you may have to modify the text until you get what you want.

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Apr 29, 2024 19:06:30   #
terryMc Loc: Arizona's White Mountains
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
I think it would be a more personal artistic statement if you go into detail about what you want, and you may have to modify the text until you get what you want.


Or you could write a description and take it to a professional artist who could execute it for you. Just another way for a "creative" person who has no knowledge or talent for art, color, tone, anatomy or anything else to claim they "created art."

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Apr 29, 2024 19:20:08   #
Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona
 
terryMc wrote:
Or you could write a description and take it to a professional artist who could execute it for you. Just another way for a "creative" person who has no knowledge or talent for art, color, tone, anatomy or anything else to claim they "created art."


One created by a professional artist and photographed and one created by AI. Neither one is real. No rational individual would believe they were. What's the difference?


(Download)


(Download)

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Apr 29, 2024 21:42:23   #
terryMc Loc: Arizona's White Mountains
 
Curmudgeon wrote:
One created by a professional artist and photographed and one created by AI. Neither one is real. No rational individual would believe they were. What's the difference?


One was created and hand drawn onto some medium by a talented human, the other was never seen by a human eye until it was belched completed out of a computer program.

One was created line by line with purpose and intent, using materials, textures, colors, tones and an understanding of composition. The other was cobbled together by scraping the Internet for work by artists and then analyzing millions of images to mimic them.

Machine learning cannot create anything new, only approximate an execution of what has already been done.

Having an idea for an image and not being able to execute it but only tell someone or something else to do it, is the other side of that coin. If you can type a great description, you may want to call yourself an author, and then hire an illustrator.

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Apr 29, 2024 22:22:49   #
srt101fan
 
terryMc wrote:
One was created and hand drawn onto some medium by a talented human, the other was never seen by a human eye until it was belched completed out of a computer program.

One was created line by line with purpose and intent, using materials, textures, colors, tones and an understanding of composition. The other was cobbled together by scraping the Internet for work by artists and then analyzing millions of images to mimic them.

Machine learning cannot create anything new, only approximate an execution of what has already been done.

Having an idea for an image and not being able to execute it but only tell someone or something else to do it, is the other side of that coin. If you can type a great description, you may want to call yourself an author, and then hire an illustrator.
One was created and hand drawn onto some medium by... (show quote)


"Machine learning cannot create anything new..."

Are you sure about that?....

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Apr 29, 2024 23:13:36   #
frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.
 
terryMc wrote:
One was created and hand drawn onto some medium by a talented human, the other was never seen by a human eye until it was belched completed out of a computer program.

One was created line by line with purpose and intent, using materials, textures, colors, tones and an understanding of composition. The other was cobbled together by scraping the Internet for work by artists and then analyzing millions of images to mimic them.

Machine learning cannot create anything new, only approximate an execution of what has already been done.

Having an idea for an image and not being able to execute it but only tell someone or something else to do it, is the other side of that coin. If you can type a great description, you may want to call yourself an author, and then hire an illustrator.
One was created and hand drawn onto some medium by... (show quote)


New stuff is being created all the time!

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Apr 30, 2024 00:32:43   #
Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona
 
terryMc wrote:
One was created and hand drawn onto some medium by a talented human, the other was never seen by a human eye until it was belched completed out of a computer program.

One was created line by line with purpose and intent, using materials, textures, colors, tones and an understanding of composition. The other was cobbled together by scraping the Internet for work by artists and then analyzing millions of images to mimic them.

Machine learning cannot create anything new, only approximate an execution of what has already been done.

Having an idea for an image and not being able to execute it but only tell someone or something else to do it, is the other side of that coin. If you can type a great description, you may want to call yourself an author, and then hire an illustrator.
One was created and hand drawn onto some medium by... (show quote)


I don't and never will have the talent and I certainly don't have the money, $20,000, to commission Boris Vallejo to draw one for me. Should I abandon my idea for an image?

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Apr 30, 2024 08:12:18   #
Artcameraman Loc: Springfield NH
 
terryMc wrote:
There can be no argument that commercial advertising will use the cheapest, fastest method to achieve its goal, even if that means eliminating people (real people) entirely.

I have my doubts about movies, though, since using AI animation for an entire documentary, dramatic, or comedic movie without any real people might not sell too well. Even the Marvel Universe still requires some real people to blend into the explosions and come out the other side. There is already very little reason to have actual people in this type of movie, but I can't see humans being completely replaced any time soon.

I think there will still be a place for wedding, portrait, and senior photography, documenting news, sending images from space, broadcasting and recording important events, speeches and what have you, personal memorabilia and many other uses that will always require a device to record an actual event.

If you are in certain lines of work, you may have to worry about your job in the future, but cameras in general are going to be around for a long, long time. You'll still want that picture of you at the Grand Canyon.
There can be no argument that commercial advertisi... (show quote)


Posting two photos, one RAW out of the camera, no jpg's that the camera has processed and a second one after porocessing.

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Apr 30, 2024 08:23:00   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Artcameraman wrote:
Posting two photos, one RAW out of the camera, no jpg's that the camera has processed and a second one after porocessing.


??

How do you post a raw photo from the camera without postprocessing?

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Apr 30, 2024 16:08:56   #
druthven
 
Curmudgeon wrote:
One created by a professional artist and photographed and one created by AI. Neither one is real. No rational individual would believe they were. What's the difference?


The difference, apparently about $20,000 dollars. Although the AI image, top, is perhaps more detailed and "realistic" the Boris Vallejo original image below holds more value. Probably because it's a result of the imagination and talent of the composer and is a one of a kind. The original AI dragon is worth no more than any subsequent reproductions.

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Apr 30, 2024 17:53:11   #
Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona
 
druthven wrote:
The difference, apparently about $20,000 dollars. Although the AI image, top, is perhaps more detailed and "realistic" the Boris Vallejo original image below holds more value. Probably because it's a result of the imagination and talent of the composer and is a one of a kind. The original AI dragon is worth no more than any subsequent reproductions.


I agree with all of that and I would kill for a Vallejo original or even a signed copy. There will never be a reproduction of the AI dragon, that's not the way AI works

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