robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

The Dali was leaving, not arriving. It left the pier with the Pilot(s) aboard and tugs until it was in the channel, headed for the bridge and the open sea. Then the tugs went about their business, probably to get the next ship leaving on its way.

catskinner Loc: Middle Kansas

The container ship was LEAVING the harbor and going OUT, NOT in. My gosh people, can't you see the drawing and route the ship took to get to where it hit the bridge? catskinner

dustie Loc: Nose to the grindstone

With your previous teaching experience, maybe you have that persuasive, eye-opening way to successfully instruct those who have no idea, that a vessel that size cannot maneuver on its own at speeds below what are necessary for all the functions of self-maneuverability to be met.

The tugs do not maneuver them around in the dock because the captain and crew are some mish-mash of international dolts. The tugs maneuver them around in the dock because the big ship cannot do so on its own. It's not like putting bread in the toaster and removing it after toasting....it can take as much as three to four hours for tugs to push and nudge one of those ships into the berth correctly, and a couple hours or more to get them out into the open to head out again, to the channel.
Somewhere along in there, the tugs most likely must turn that ship 180°, another thing those big ships cannot do on their own if they aren't underway in the wide open.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

When my unit to Vietnam we were on the USNS General W. H. Gordon 622+ feet and over 20,000 tons loaded, needed 26 feet of water to float. It was a late WW2 Fast Attack Transport. We dropped off Marines in Da Nang, then other Army units in Cam Ranh Bay at piers then a storm blew in and for three days we circled offshore until the waves went down enough to let us off at Qui Nhon. But the waves were still high enough the ship would have battered the piers to fire wood. The ship had no Higgins landing craft of its own loaded so the Coast Guard detachment that ran the US military part of the port brought their Higgins boats out. The assault landing doors on the side were opened and a gangway run out. The Higgins boat would pull under the gangway, and we tossed our duffle bags to them and they made a pyramid in their cargo well. Then when the waves brought the boat up about three of us would run out the gangway and jump onto the pyramid with our rifles and large fanny pack strapped to our web gear. Coasties guided our landing so someone rolled down each side of the pyramid and helped us to our feet and out of the way. Repeat until the Higgins boat had a full load. Sort out the duffle bags and line up while they ran the boat all the way up to where the water was only 6" deep, drop the ramp and as the wave pulled back we all ran across the wet sand to dry sand. Formed up and had a roll call just in case then walked up to the street that ran along the beach to Army buses.
It was the city's recreation beach, and a battalion of Marines had done a full out assault on it the year before because the local Main Force VC had threatened to oppose them landing. They didn't, the Marines on the sea side and the Cops, National Police, local militia and ARVN troops on the land side of the beach sort of made that a bad idea.
But we did provide some entertainment to the local beach goers and frustration to the vendors as we had been WARNED not to buy anything to eat or drink from them ahead of time.
Hey, at least I can truthfully say that I took part in an Army landing on a beach from a Higgins boat. Just like in the WW2 movies, running through the surf with rifle and gear.

Wallen Loc: Middle Earth

Not in contact with any of them so Not a suggestion. merely Discussing the incident.

Wallen Loc: Middle Earth

My questions too. Had he known that if the engine they are using fails, everything will be gone, would he still allow the ship to navigate? Would he continue but slow down and not push 8knots?
As aforementioned, hoping for a good investigation to find the fault and gets mitigated so it does not happen again.

Wallen Loc: Middle Earth

Questions, not pronouncements. Learn to read.

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

8 knots is not “pushing it”. A boat needs momentum to turn. A boat that size isn’t gonna be easy to turn going slower than that.

Wallen Loc: Middle Earth

If this is about the gethometitis, then not relevant. The pilot does not cross the sea with the boat. It might be leaving port but it means the pilot if he finish early will go to another ship or maybe home.

Wallen Loc: Middle Earth

Fuzzy thinking works great. keeps the mind open and exploring.
Too great they are making machines learn fuzzy logic too.

Wallen Loc: Middle Earth

Nope. Rudders do not produce thrust. No different from a gliding airplane. The boats rudder works by causing a reaction to the fluid moving on it. It does not matter if the rudder is going through the fluid or it is steady but fluid is flowing around it, you get a reaction. That was its designed purpose.

Since the boat is moving forward, the rudder will still have effect. Only diminished in effectivity, because water flows faster on it when the propellers are working.
Only when the boat is drifting, when the water and the boat is moving as one, will the rudder be useless. The boats mass, for a short while, made that drifting non-factor. It was still cruising forward.
I'm hoping that investigators do find the problem and have it mitigated.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Now where did I imply the pilots cross the sea with the ship?
The pilots can board at the pier when leaving and are picked up by the same "pilot boat" that takes pilots to incoming ships and are usually immediately taken to one of those incoming ships. So they spend their shift going in and out of the harbor on different ships then at the end of shift either just go to the pier with the ship they are bringing in or get run back by the pilot boat.

Wallen Loc: Middle Earth

But reports says they lost control, meaning the redundancy was not there, or the redundancy were all broken too, meaning they were operating a very unsafe vessel.
As for the pilot-captain relation, My understanding is that the pilot is in command while the ship is under his jurisdiction, not only for the navigation. If I'm mistaken then thanks for the correction.

Wallen Loc: Middle Earth

I was thinking your reply of the boat leaving port, not arriving is about the gethometitis.

Wallen Loc: Middle Earth

I'm confused with your answer. 8 knots is not pushing it but it needs to be faster to turn the boat? It does not make sense to me.

As previously mentioned, 8 knots may be the limit operating speed for that area. If that is the case, then operating on the limit at reduced visibility and decreasing space is indeed "pushing it".

But that was not what I meant with the later post of pushing 8 knots. Its about deciding to go to that speed, regardless if he had the knowlege that he has no redundancy/safety margin.

As for the boat needing momentum to turn, it does not work that way. Momentum keeps the boat moving in a steady and same direction.

The boat needs another force against its momentum to change direction.
-Friction will slow it down eventually
-River flow may move it to another direction eventually,
-wind may do the same
-the rudder with flow around it, will creates a reaction to turn it.

Momentum is whats resisting all the above to happen.
But momentum in that instance, if they still have rudder control, will "help" to turn, because it keeps the boat moving forward, hence water flows on the rudder, meaning the rudder would still have effect -eventually.