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Stupide question? Did the bridge really need to collapse?
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Mar 28, 2024 12:06:46   #
druthven
 
It's said that the force of the collision was equal to being hit by an aircraft carrier and that the weight of the bridge wreckage put the bow of the boat on the bottom which certainly helped stop the boat.

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Mar 28, 2024 12:29:07   #
dustie Loc: Nose to the grindstone
 
jerryc41 wrote:
You can bet that the replacement bridge will have them. That's exactly what happened after a ship destroyed another bridge. That should be a national requirement for bridges. I'd prefer an island barrier to dophins, though. When a ship weighing over 200,000 tons is gliding through the water, it takes something solid to stop it. If you really want to protect bridge supports, you have to really protect them. In the pictures below, the only one I would recommend is the island, only larger.

"Do or do not. There is no try." Yoda

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin_(structure)
You can bet that the replacement bridge will have ... (show quote)


There are big drawbacks to putting something absolutely solid enough to stop, catch and hold the absolutely biggest vessel that could ever hit the supports, in the absolute worst case ever possible.
That hugely expensive, time-involved effort may eventually become physically big enough to protect bridge supports, but the damage to the ships and loss of whatever amounts of cargo, fuel, and ship carcasses into the water is not cured by that.

In cases of vastly far less weight and moving mass, there are reasons why jets landing on aircraft carriers are not stopped with a solid barrier that they absolutely cannot penetrate, and top fuel dragsters are not aided in their stopping by a solid barrier across the track. Moving mass of manmade stuff needs controlled deceleration if there will be elimination of damage.

In the case of the Dali, that mass is in the neighborhood of more than three American football fields in top deck surface area and eighty feet tall.....when it's empty. And it is not even nearly the biggest in the world.
What amount of harbor waterway is going to be needed to make an impenetrable barrier for the absolutely worst case disaster scenario possible for the absolutely largest seagoing vessel that will ever be in the vicinity of a bridge? Some little, few yards wide by few yards long bumpers, barriers, dolphins, islands, pylons, what have you, cannot be a match for the worst possible case of contact by the largest manmade ships afloat.

If there is going to be a program to make it impossible for bridges to ever be damaged by ships, it would work better to remove all bridges that are downstream of the farthest upriver docks, and relocate those bridges farther inland, upstream of the farthest point a ship will ever travel.

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Mar 28, 2024 12:47:12   #
ecblackiii Loc: Maryland
 
srt101fan wrote:
Oh, good! We have another expert answer. No need to waste money and time on any further investigations....



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Mar 28, 2024 12:49:51   #
MrBob Loc: lookout Mtn. NE Alabama
 
Can any Physics gurus here tell us what would stop that much moving mass at the prevailing speed ? I don't think anything short of solid land would do the trick... Your thoughts ?

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Mar 28, 2024 12:50:37   #
home brewer Loc: Fort Wayne, Indiana
 
the cost benefit study must have shown a low chance of a disaster.
Any guess as to how long the port will be closed and the economic impact?
For you stock market investors is this a black swan event?

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Mar 28, 2024 12:51:27   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
jerryc41 wrote:
You can bet that the replacement bridge will have them. That's exactly what happened after a ship destroyed another bridge. That should be a national requirement for bridges. I'd prefer an island barrier to dophins, though. When a ship weighing over 200,000 tons is gliding through the water, it takes something solid to stop it. If you really want to protect bridge supports, you have to really protect them. In the pictures below, the only one I would recommend is the island, only larger.

"Do or do not. There is no try." Yoda

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin_(structure)
You can bet that the replacement bridge will have ... (show quote)


I think I've mentioned that the Key Bridge was built three years before the bridge disaster in Tampa that killed 35 people on a bus that toppled into the water. When that bridge was rebuilt, proper protection was placed around all structural supports and that has become the standard for bridge building since. The Key Bridge was built just three years too soon.

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Mar 28, 2024 12:55:14   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
SteveR wrote:
And yet the ship stopped right on the spot of impact. If things were as dire as you insist, why didn't it just keep moving THROUGH the bridge onto the other side of it? Solid rock has a way of stopping even the stoutest of vessels.


Because after smashing though the inadequate barriers it basically rode up on the base of the bridge support column while knocking it down and then got tangled in the steel bridge parts etc. as it supposedly dropped off with the bow now on the bottom. All of which finally bled off the momentum and stopped it.
If it had still been under power, it probably would have gotten quite a bit further. The bow of the ship is past the base the bridge stood on by a little bit.

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Mar 28, 2024 12:56:04   #
dustie Loc: Nose to the grindstone
 
SteveR wrote:
I think I've mentioned that the Key Bridge was built three years before the bridge disaster in Tampa that killed 35 people on a bus that toppled into the water. When that bridge was rebuilt, proper protection was placed around all structural supports and that has become the standard for bridge building since. The Key Bridge was built just three years too soon.


Is that barrier size, design, capability going to undeniably prevent the worst case possible that could ever arise?

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Mar 28, 2024 12:56:46   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
dustie wrote:
Is that barrier size, design, capability going to undeniably prevent the worst case possible that could ever arise?


NO!

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Mar 28, 2024 12:57:33   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
robertjerl wrote:
Because after smashing though the inadequate barriers it basically rode up on the base of the bridge support column while knocking it down and then got tangled in the steel bridge parts etc. All of which finally bled off the momentum and stopped it.
If it had still been under power, it probably would have gotten quit a bit further.


Concrete would work the same way, don't you think? After all, since the 1980 Tampa bridge disaster, engineers have worked on this problem and there is a standard solution and implemented it.

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Mar 28, 2024 12:59:12   #
srt101fan
 
pendennis wrote:
No it wouldn't. Dropping the bow anchors brings a whole new set of problems with a ship of that mass and length. An emergency anchor was dropped, but that's akin to dropping a fishing line and hook and hoping it catches on some weeds.

Dropping the anchor will require power to the winches and windlass gear. Time is also a factor.


They did drop one of the bow anchors. You can see the anchor chain on some of the photos.

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Mar 28, 2024 13:00:32   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
robertjerl wrote:
NO!


And you know because....

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Mar 28, 2024 13:02:36   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Schoee wrote:
Perhaps the tugs need to stay with the big ships until clear of all bridges.


They would need a lot more tugs to keep the shipping lines from screaming about having to wait to be escorted out.

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Mar 28, 2024 13:05:34   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Rich2236 wrote:
Forget the bridge abutments, why didn't the captain let go the anchor when he first realized the power was out all over the ship. THAT, would have stopped the ship in its tracks!!!


The ship dragged the anchor.

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Mar 28, 2024 13:05:54   #
dustie Loc: Nose to the grindstone
 
MrBob wrote:
Can any Physics gurus here tell us what would stop that much moving mass at the prevailing speed ? I don't think anything short of solid land would do the trick... Your thoughts ?


A massive, massive, massive, massive catch cable/catch net system....a la aircraft carrier jet catcher idea.....if it's massive enough, and occupies enough harbor area to prevent a ship reaching the bridge......and the ship fails far enough away from the bridge for the catch system to catch it......

KIDDING, man!! Kidding!!

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