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Bridge Collapse
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Mar 26, 2024 16:54:31   #
dustie Loc: Nose to the grindstone
 
AirWalter wrote:
Okay Jerry, tell me this. They are saying that they had a major power shutdown. I was watching the news this morning, and it was clear enough that you could see how fast the ship was going and you could see the straight direction that it was going and then just before it got to the bridge you could easily see the ship started turning to the right which made it hit that brace from the water to the bridge and there was a big splash of water as it hit and then that bridge fell and was in the water within 1 & 1/2 second. It completely fell extremely fast. Now the turning to the right just before it hit the bridge; if there was no power how much air would it take to turn that ship into that brace considering the total weight of that ship and all of that cargo. It just seems weird that that cargo ship could have been turned to the right like that to hit that bridge that quick.
Okay Jerry, tell me this. They are saying that th... (show quote)


No, I'm not Jerry, but here is possible scenario.

Without propulsion and steering, a maneuver the crew is probably trained to use is drop anchors in an attempt to slow the vessel. That does not provide controllable steering, and it is a very inefficient braking system, but it's pretty much the only onboard option remaining.
Downside of that is, the anchors are at the bow, not the stern. So if they drag hard enough or catch on the bottom, the momentum will cause the stern to swing out in some direction to pass the bow which is being restrained, at some degree of inefficiency, by an anchor or anchors, effectively altering the direction of the vessel's course fairly quickly. Kinda like a staked-out running animal hitting the end of its chain.........only on a massively larger scale of energy at work.

The rate of that bridge dropping is more a result of support of its continuous truss being removed, and the expected progressive failure, as it is not capable of self-sustaining support without its engineered ground support.
If it was all ship speed and momentum from beginning to end of collapse, it would be expected that highway bridge would have been forced, dragged, carried, propelled, something, many many yards downstream by high speed impact, rather than doing the nearly vertical drop as the ship ended its low speed movement.

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Mar 26, 2024 17:26:44   #
AirWalter Loc: Tipp City, Ohio
 
dustie wrote:
No, I'm not Jerry, but here is possible scenario.

Without propulsion and steering, a maneuver the crew is probably trained to use is drop anchors in an attempt to slow the vessel. That does not provide controllable steering, and it is a very inefficient braking system, but it's pretty much the only onboard option remaining.
Downside of that is, the anchors are at the bow, not the stern. So if they drag hard enough or catch on the bottom, the momentum will cause the stern to swing out in some direction to pass the bow which is being restrained, at some degree of inefficiency, by an anchor or anchors, effectively altering the direction of the vessel's course fairly quickly. Kinda like a staked-out running animal hitting the end of its chain.........only on a massively larger scale of energy at work.

The rate of that bridge dropping is more a result of support of its continuous truss being removed, and the expected progressive failure, as it is not capable of self-sustaining support without its engineered ground support.
If it was all ship speed and momentum from beginning to end of collapse, it would be expected that highway bridge would have been forced, dragged, carried, propelled, something, many many yards downstream by high speed impact, rather than doing the nearly vertical drop as the ship ended its low speed movement.
No, I'm not Jerry, but here is possible scenario. ... (show quote)


I heard some other news programs and they were talking about, some of people who were starting investigation already wondered why the anchors were never dropped

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Mar 26, 2024 17:42:00   #
dustie Loc: Nose to the grindstone
 
AirWalter wrote:
I heard some other news programs and they were talking about, some of people who were starting investigation already wondered why the anchors were never dropped


Hmmmmm.......interesting.

There are photos on some sites showing anchor chains leading into the water, no anchors visible in raised position.
One photo has a perspective angle which appears to show the chain of the portside anchor swept back a bit toward the stern, as though that anchor was dragging bottom when the ship stopped.

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Mar 26, 2024 17:55:29   #
srt101fan
 
AirWalter wrote:
I heard some other news programs and they were talking about, some of people who were starting investigation already wondered why the anchors were never dropped


Some of the pictures I've seen show the anchor chain hanging out of the hawsepipe on one side of the ship.

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Mar 26, 2024 18:17:24   #
GBJim
 
The bridge collapse (Francis Scott Key Bridge) is a bridge across the Patapsco River in Baltimore. It is part of the I-695 "beltway" around the city. You could have used it previously, but you're more likely to be traveling in I-95 and use one of the two tunnels under the outer harbor. I rarely used the bridge. More often, the tunnel was my choice.

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Mar 26, 2024 18:26:25   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
srt101fan wrote:
you say "Maybe they are also overloaded." So now you're adding to your original accusation. I hope you never take part in an accident investigation.

And speaking of a ship's sail area, did you ever take a good look at cruise ships?


Investigation, been there, done that long ago in the Army.

The cruise ships have gotten ridiculous, in a cross wind they have to be in danger of rolling over.

The only long "cruise" I ever went on was aboard this: USS General W. H. Gordon 11,450 tons (lt) 20,175 tons fully laden 622 feet 7 inches (189.76 m)
Oakland to San Diego to pick up some marines, to Okinawa to pick up fresh food (we did get ashore for about 6 hours), to Vietnam where we dropped the Marines in one port, all the rest of the Army units in another and then finally Qui Nhon where my unit got off after circling for 3 days in a storm until we could go ashore via Higgins* boat because the water was too rough to use the piers. Those three days were the only time I got seasick out of the 28 days our "cruise" lasted.

I understand they took a heavy cruiser hull and put a fast attack transport upper works on it. They only built two before WW2 ended, and they canceled the others. And it was fast, we caught up to and passed a lot of ships, including one small aircraft carrier. Well, small for an aircraft carrier. The US Navy doesn't have any of those anymore. They have some combo carrier/landing ships that have jump jets and/or helicopters like the USS America and that ship is almost 850'.

* I can actually say I landed on a beach by going over the side and then running down the bow ramp carrying my rifle and full gear. It was the city recreational beach and the beach goers sort of goggled at us as we stormed their beach then boarded Army buses. The only dangerous resistence we faced was the venders and we had been warned not to buy anything to eat or drink from them - unless of course we just wanted to be very sick for a day or two.



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Mar 26, 2024 18:39:04   #
kavitykid Loc: Maryland
 
Seven workers filling pot holes on the bridge went into the water and have not been found. The bridge was closed just before impact when an SOS was sent from the ship otherwise it would have been much worse.

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Mar 26, 2024 19:44:35   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
robertjerl wrote:
Reports say the ship lost power (no steering etc.) and radioed the port people in time for the police to stop cars from going onto the bridge, so only a few were on it. A work crew of 8 was on the bridge and so far they have found two of them, both alive but one with bad injuries and rushed to the hospital. Sonar does show some cars in the 50' deep water.

In the pictures that ship had a max load and in my opinion the containers were stacked too high. A huge "sail" area for wind to push on. Even with full power, a ship loaded like that would be hard to control in a cross wind. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Reports say the ship lost power (no steering etc.... (show quote)


It looked like at the time of the collision traffic had just cleared the bridge but the work crews vehicles were on the bridge.

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Mar 26, 2024 21:26:23   #
ELNikkor
 
On Lester Holt, they said the bridge had been closed, so no traffic went into the water. Just curious if there was a line of irate drivers wanting the bridge to open, then, after ker-splash!, very glad that it hadn't, stopped being irate, and became thankful that some people were doing their jobs.

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Mar 26, 2024 22:34:11   #
Tote1940 Loc: Dallas
 
In many bridges have seem an structure to keep boats away from pillars.
Just huge wooden piles driven in a circle or diamond shape . You can see some like that on high tension towers near bridge.
They narrow channel , may be they are to direct current more than protect posts.
Structure will have to be analyzed, one post hit but whole bridge dissassembled in seconds

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Mar 27, 2024 00:44:05   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Tote1940 wrote:
In many bridges have seem an structure to keep boats away from pillars.
Just huge wooden piles driven in a circle or diamond shape . You can see some like that on high tension towers near bridge.
They narrow channel , may be they are to direct current more than protect posts.
Structure will have to be analyzed, one post hit but whole bridge dissassembled in seconds


That’s the nature of a suspension bridge. One part goes the entire bridge goes. As for protecting the towers the rebuilt Sunshine Skyway bridge after its collapse has concrete “islands” that won’t let a boat near, but I doubt they have that kind of space in Baltimore Harbor.

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Mar 27, 2024 01:10:35   #
Amtrain
 
They did not drop either of the two anchors ...a big No-No.

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Mar 27, 2024 01:12:41   #
xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
Indi wrote:
I thought I read that there were people on the bridge.
Friday I will be traveling through Maryland. I don’t remember if I have to take that bridge. Hope not. I’ll have enough problems when I get to the Belt Parkway in Brooklyn.


So sorry for your travel disruption problems Indi

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Mar 27, 2024 02:21:54   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
theaverlo wrote:
In one video I saw, it appeared that the ship went black just before it struck the bridge... maybe it lost power? Also, maybe it's just my old eyes, but it appeared to me that there was no way that ship would clear the bridge anyway, because of the ship's height.


I was watching the security video published last night. The ship did lost light and smoke for about a second just before it hit the bridge.
But was heading for the pillar the whole time, maybe a full 10 minutes before impact, and was moving very fast for such a small navigation space at night.
That bridge and pillars should be clearly marked on their navigation tools and the area would be time to carefully pilot. If my bells are correct, it was intentional.

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Mar 27, 2024 02:53:05   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Amtrain wrote:
They did not drop either of the two anchors ...a big No-No.


Apparently they did

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