Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
Boeing Bashing
Page <<first <prev 6 of 6
Mar 17, 2024 15:39:59   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
ecblackiii wrote:
Remember the recent LATAM (a Chilean Airline) flight to New Zealand that suddenly plunged a few thousand feet, injuring 50 passengers who were slammed into the ceiling? The mass media breathlessly rushed to report that once again a Boeing plane had a “technical issue.” It was news mainly because it was built by Boeing and was a problem with a different Boeing plane than the 737Max.

But now the truth is coming out. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the so called “technical issue” had nothing to do with the plane design or the manufacturer. It was caused when a flight attendant (who was serving meals in the cockpit) accidentally pressed the switch that caused the pilot’s seat to move in its track, thereby pressing the pilot forward onto the control yoke and causing the plane to dive.

Wonder how quickly the media will retract their rush to judgment?
Remember the recent LATAM (a Chilean Airline) flig... (show quote)


She's probably serving a fresh & warm hairy clams to not notice flicking the wrong joystick

Reply
Mar 17, 2024 17:04:34   #
francosp Loc: Arizona
 
Red6 wrote:
Yes, there is a lot of Boeing bashing going on recently but much of it may be deserved. First, let me say that I have always been a Boeing supporter and thought they made the best airplanes in the world. However, things changed at Boeing after the McDonnell Douglas merger, and not for the best. Upper management changed and started cutting costs by cutting corners and people. Speed and costs became more important than quality and safety. Boeing management became obsessed with keeping and maintaining the stock prices as high as possible. Their focus shifted from keeping customers happy and safe to keeping Wall Street happy.

This was exposed after the 737 Max crashes. Documents have been released that Boeing knew (and later lied about) the possible dangers with the MCAS system. Boeing knew all along that MCAS could be a problem but hoped they could "update" it and fix the issues while the aircraft was in service. Even after the crashes and Boeing knew that MCAS was at fault, they tried to shift blame to the airline and pilots.

MCAS description or operation was not described or even mentioned in the 737 Max manuals. Pilots and FAA inspectors did not even know it existed. In fact, Boeing employees were forbidden to mention MCAS to anyone outside the company, including the FAA. This was done by Boeing to speed up the certification of the Max aircraft by telling the airlines and pilots that the 737 Max flew exactly like the older 737s and required no additional training, an expensive cost for the airlines. All this has been revealed in released Boeing documents.

The door plug on Alaskan Airlines appears to be much the same. Boeing's first response was to blame its fuselage builders, Spirit Aerosystems, for shoddy build quality and poor quality control. Recently obtained documents now reveal that Boeing itself removed the door plug at its facility in Seattle and failed to reinstall the bolts that held the door in place. It also violated its own quality policies by NOT properly documenting the action of the door plug removal and replacement. Proper documentation would have ensured that an inspection of the reinstallation of the door plug would have taken place and the missing bolts would have been discovered. But this never happened.

Again, I am a Boeing supporter, and I truly hope they get their act together, but when they lie about their operations, and hide problems while not accepting responsibility for their actions, this becomes a huge problem for me. This is especially true when people's lives hang in the balance. These actions tell me they value money or share prices over the lives of the people who fly in and on their airplanes.

Management issues may also be apparent in other Boeing projects. The 777-9, the Air Force KC-46, and the Boeing Starliner commercial spacecraft have all experienced quality issues delaying their deliveries. I am sure regulators and customers of these aircraft are taking a much closer view of Boeing after the recent events.
Yes, there is a lot of Boeing bashing going on rec... (show quote)


All corporations are driven by profit. All top management people are pushing for more profit and to have it they have to reduce manufacturing cost. So, if they reduce manufacturing cost in whatever manner, they get more profit and this equates to higher bonus for them at the end of the year. That's the driving force that creates the problems.

Reply
Mar 17, 2024 17:13:20   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Wallen wrote:
She's probably serving a fresh & warm hairy clams to not notice flicking the wrong joystick


About as funny as a stomach pump.

Reply
 
 
Mar 17, 2024 23:26:37   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
Longshadow wrote:

About as funny as a stomach pump.


Tried to present the problem in a lighter tone but Yep, not funny at all.
They call it mile high club. Passenger & private aircrafts have already crashed and people have died because of it.
Their explanation of serving food is very unlikely to cause the problem they encountered.

Reply
Mar 18, 2024 07:35:43   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Wallen wrote:
Tried to present the problem in a lighter tone but Yep, not funny at all.
They call it mile high club. Passenger & private aircrafts have already crashed and people have died because of it.
Their explanation of serving food is very unlikely to cause the problem they encountered.

I wasn't referring to <how> what happened.....

Reply
Mar 18, 2024 07:58:48   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
TriX wrote:
Boeing or Airbus or Bombardier, or…, flying has become such a PIA, that I hope to never get on another commercial aircraft.


Amen, brother!

Having said that, a friend recently flew to Ireland and back - a non-event. My son flew to FL, England last year. and all four flights were smooth and boring. Still, I have no plans to fly.

I had a Bombardier snowmobile years ago. That was fun.

Reply
Mar 18, 2024 17:11:33   #
Nigel7 Loc: Worcestershire. UK.
 
ecblackiii wrote:
By removing one olive from the salad, United saved $50,000 in expenses. That started the ball rolling to save hundreds of millions by eliminating meals.


Olives or even full meals I can do without. The four bolts securing a door blanking plate are a different matter. Also the software faults that caused over 350 passengers to lose their lives. There is no shortage of information about Boeing weakening their previous strict safety protocols in a chase for increased profit. Over 40+ years of air travel I have never worried about different manufacturers' quality controls but that has changed over recent years.
I trust that those who seem to suggest that there is nothing wrong with the current Boeing company actually still travel on their planes rather than just preaching loyalty from their rocking chairs.

Reply
 
 
Mar 18, 2024 17:40:33   #
ecblackiii Loc: Maryland
 
Nigel7 wrote:
Olives or even full meals I can do without. The four bolts securing a door blanking plate are a different matter. Also the software faults that caused over 350 passengers to lose their lives. There is no shortage of information about Boeing weakening their previous strict safety protocols in a chase for increased profit. Over 40+ years of air travel I have never worried about different manufacturers' quality controls but that has changed over recent years.
I trust that those who seem to suggest that there is nothing wrong with the current Boeing company actually still travel on their planes rather than just preaching loyalty from their rocking chairs.
Olives or even full meals I can do without. The fo... (show quote)


I hear you, but you seem to have a selective memory. Apparently, you don't remember Air France 296Q, Gulf Air 072, TAM 3054, Air Asia 8501, Germanwings 9525, or PIA 8303, etc. There were 876 lives lost in the crashes of these A320's. I could list more but I think you get the point.

I have and will continue to fly on both Boeing and Airbus aircraft (any model), as long as they are flown by a major international airline. Both manufacturers make the safest planes available, and all of them are safer than ground transportation. For that matter, you are more likely to die sitting in your rocking chair than on a Boeing or Airbus product!

Reply
Mar 20, 2024 08:37:03   #
Expressoman1 Loc: Jupiter, Fl. USA
 
No casualties, planes were able to safe landing.

Reply
Mar 22, 2024 14:51:52   #
diamondmask
 
The airline and Boeing sent out notices to check to see that the cover on the switch was secure.

I bet they move the switch in future planes.

Reply
Mar 23, 2024 10:48:43   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
diamondmask wrote:
The airline and Boeing sent out notices to check to see that the cover on the switch was secure.

I bet they move the switch in future planes.


The switch is in a convenient location, and the cover was a good idea. If they could make the switch more secure, the problem would be solved. How many other switches become loose? I bet that's the only one.

Reply
 
 
Mar 25, 2024 08:20:12   #
tgreenhaw
 
ecblackiii wrote:
Wonder how quickly the media will retract their rush to judgment?


Don't hold your breath. It used to be that the FCC required Radio and TV Stations provide programming for the public good with high standards. TV stations could lose their license if they repeatedly reported false news of violated standards of decency.

Today those guardrails are long gone and anything that gets viewers to tune in and watch ads, or better yet pay monthly fees to watch is pushed. Today, TV is pretty much some form of nicely packaged combination of fear, greed and sex.

The supreme court is deciding on how social media companies will be coerced and which special interests will be allowed to pollute the public's mind with propaganda.

At the end of the day, somebody has to be a trustworthy gatekeeper and reject messages that are harmful and not truthful, otherwise democracy cannot work.

Reply
Mar 25, 2024 10:48:23   #
ecblackiii Loc: Maryland
 
tgreenhaw wrote:
Don't hold your breath. It used to be that the FCC required Radio and TV Stations provide programming for the public good with high standards. TV stations could lose their license if they repeatedly reported false news of violated standards of decency.

Today those guardrails are long gone and anything that gets viewers to tune in and watch ads, or better yet pay monthly fees to watch is pushed. Today, TV is pretty much some form of nicely packaged combination of fear, greed and sex.

The supreme court is deciding on how social media companies will be coerced and which special interests will be allowed to pollute the public's mind with propaganda.

At the end of the day, somebody has to be a trustworthy gatekeeper and reject messages that are harmful and not truthful, otherwise democracy cannot work.
Don't hold your breath. It used to be that the FCC... (show quote)


Amen!

Reply
Mar 25, 2024 11:58:46   #
fourlocks Loc: Londonderry, NH
 
Longshadow wrote:
Self-regulating?

FAA is not involved?


Yes, self-regulating. The FAA commonly allows Boeing (and others) to self-certify safety and quality control procedures partly because the FAA lacks the staff to oversee every step of construction on every plane being built. As others said here, it wasn’t a problem until shareholder returns and company profits became more important than quality and safety.

Reply
Mar 25, 2024 13:51:43   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
fourlocks wrote:
Yes, self-regulating. The FAA commonly allows Boeing (and others) to self-certify safety and quality control procedures partly because the FAA lacks the staff to oversee every step of construction on every plane being built. As others said here, it wasn’t a problem until shareholder returns and company profits became more important than quality and safety.



Reply
Page <<first <prev 6 of 6
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.