Ysarex wrote:
I don't see it that way. If by "crop sensor trick" you mean DX mode on the FX camera versus cropping the FX frame then yes. I understand "crop sensor trick" to mean bringing in a second camera body with a crop sensor and in that case the "crop sensor trick" may be very effective.
We are in agreement then on FF set to crop sensor only lessens the pixel count. That is the crop sensor trick.
Using a crop sensor camera with a crop lens...accomplishes nothing additional. Using a full frame lens on a crop sensor camera ...accomplishes nothing additional. In short, if the lens is 100mm it is 100mm regardless.
Some try to argue if you put a 100mm crop on a full frame camera it becomes 150mm. It may in appearance looking through the camera but all you have done is shut down the viewing area and cost half (quick math) your pixel count.
CliffMcKenzie wrote:
.... In short, if the lens is 100mm it is 100mm regardless.
....
Crop sensor cameras simply use (capture) less of the image circle.
CliffMcKenzie wrote:
We are in agreement then on FF set to crop sensor only lessens the pixel count. That is the crop sensor trick.
I'd call that the DX mode trick.
CliffMcKenzie wrote:
Using a crop sensor camera with a crop lens...accomplishes nothing additional. Using a full frame lens on a crop sensor camera ...accomplishes nothing additional. In short, if the lens is 100mm it is 100mm regardless.
And here you're wrong. Using the same lens from the FX camera on a crop sensor camera with a much higher pixel density than the FX camera puts more pixels on the subject and that can make a consequential difference.
Ysarex wrote:
Seems to me that, "In other words, should I switch over to Aps-c,..." could certainly be read as should I switch over to a smaller sensor camera.
Could be but I’m pretty sure most don’t read it that way.
Linda From Maine wrote:
To answer the question about which lens and gear? Best to do controlled tests to see for yourself.
"Always" fill the frame is nonsense. Take a look at one master wildlife photographer's photos:
https://backcountrygallery.com/wildlife/Lots and lots of examples where
not filling the frame with the animal results in an awe-inspiring, high impact image!
I probably mis-spoke. I shouldn’t have said, always fill the frame. I am thinking about times when I go out with my 500mm lens knowing I will have some longer shots. Before going out the door, I wonder, should I add a 1.4 teleconverter knowing I will lose a stop of light, should I just switch my 45mp camera to apps-c mode if my image is smaller than I want, or should I just crop my shots in post later if they are not sized to my liking? I do in fact subscribe to Backcountry Gallery and it is outstanding but its discussion of this topic still confuses me ( I am easily confused). Based on many comments on this thread, it seems there is not a hard and fast rule. It depends…
dustie
Loc: Nose to the grindstone
Is there really any hard and fast rule of photography?.....
.....besides maybe, if you want to take a picture, have a functioning camera with you, and use it to the best of your knowledge?
As others have said shoot with what you have. Cropping 'in-camera' makes little sense because you can always crop later. If you mostly shoot BIF etc some folks add a second crop body with higher pixel density to get more reach from the lenses you have. But then you are carrying two cameras and may have to switch bodies.
That is certainly a valid personal choice, if you often need the reach. You can also buy a longer lens.
Generally, "Make the best pictures you can make with the camera and lenses you have" is solid advice.
Most of my favorite wildlife photos are a balance of wildlife and environment ( but that is just a preference)
The answer has to come from you. If you consistently feel like you don't have enough 'Reach' for the work you do, then make a change, but never make a change because of someone else's opinion, or because of some 'rule'.
No matter what camera & lens you carry, there will ALWAYS be some pictures that call for something else.
Worry about the pictures you CAN get rather than the ones you can't.
Good Luck, Have Fun.
BTW, the Frame is ALWAYS full ;-))
Personally, that sounds like idiotic advice, geared to help you either miss or mess up lots of potential shots. I shoot a Z7 and have the same number of MP's as you do. If I was that worried about filling up a frame, I'd get my shot and crop my frame full after the fact.
Peteso wrote:
Well said...filling the frame is "nonsense." You need better mentors and advisors.
Huuuuuuge gigantamous AMEN.
Filling the frame,...too me,...means,...always cropping all subjects in the viewfinder,....to the desired look in my mind's eye,....to achieve the expected result in the completed image.
As an aside,...on occasion I do not hesitate go from full frame to one of the APS-c crop factors,...from experience my final images in doing so have not been detrimental to my liking and outcome.
I even do this on occasion when using my long lens to further explore closer desired cropping.
Sound basics practices applied,...(tripod, critical focus, cable release, mirror up, low ISO's) and such always,...trump,...poor technique in any work with the camera.
Garbage in,..........garbage out!!!!
DirtFarmer
Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
I like to leave some space in the frame. For one thing, if you have a subject that could imply some motion, you can crop so that the subject motion will be toward the center of the frame. I think it adds something to the composition. Of course there are no definitive rules to something like this but filling the frame will make such things harder. You'll have to resort to Generative AI, and then you will get all sorts of comments.
Martys wrote:
Filling the frame,...too me,...means,...always cropping all subjects in the viewfinder,....to the desired look in my mind's eye,....to achieve the expected result in the completed image.
...
...
Ahhh... "... to the "
desired look", AKA composition.
Depends on how one wants the primary subject represented with respect to the remainder of the area.
The people who say "fill the frame" obviously like their "subject" as large as possible, and think you should also...
Inherently the frame is filled, with something, nothing is left blank.
Mainridge wrote:
I probably mis-spoke. I shouldn’t have said, always fill the frame...Based on many comments on this thread, it seems there is not a hard and fast rule. It depends…
It was gratifying to read all the "it depends" advice. There are plenty of technically excellent photos out there that are boring, with no emotional impact or memorable content. Try to balance your skills with the
art.
Best on your journey!
Linda From Maine wrote:
It was gratifying to read all the "it depends" advice. There are plenty of technically excellent photos out there that are boring, with no emotional impact or memorable content. ....
But they said "fill the frame"....
(I don't shoot like
they,
I shoot like me.)
You know no matter
what one does, someone will have a contrary opinion.
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