DanDe Loc: Mchigan

Art is a little bit like prostitution. First you do it for love. Then you do it for a few friends. Then you do it for money.”

― to paraphrase Molière

JD750 Loc: SoCal

I think that is a misogynistic quote.

Prostitution has nothing to do with love, or favors for friends. Prostitution is simply “the practice or occupation of engaging in sexual activity with someone for payment”.
Source: Oxford Dictionary.

Creating art is not prostitution. Selling one’s art is not prostitution.

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

It's only misogynistic if you think only women engage in prostitution.

zarathu Loc: Bar Harbor, MDI, Maine

I took photos for money(wedding and portrait) in the late 70’s and 80’s. I took a fun hobby and turned it into a grind. And while I always had a camera, it wasn’t until digital came by and the ability to do digital editing that my interest returned.

When I was young, I bought the photo gear I could afford, but said to myself that when I got old I would buy what I wanted. One day I woke up and realized I was old(at least by US GUV standards).

I retired to a USA east coast national park expecting to take lots of landscape, but then discovered that while I can take landscape, the best photos are found in places I don’t want to try to go at my age, and at times of the day I really don’t want to be up at.

And so I switched to making unusual macro and close-up photos and blowing them up to 13 x 19 inches. At one point I was making photos for a camera club show and my wife was having a meeting in the living room. Each time one printed I would bring it out to show the group. And each time, at least one person in the group would spontaneously day “OH Wow!”. And so I switched the name of my Photography business from “Hidden Images Photography” to “OH WOW! Photography. Although so far, the “business” is running at a loss. I also make my own frames for 13 x 19 prints.

And so, I look for RELEVANCE. THIS IS A STRUGGLE THAT people who are not retired simply don’t understand. When one is retired for a long time(13 years now for me after working for 40) we struggle to be relevant. There is a lot of age discrimination.

Doing it just for me is OK, but at my age everything is done just for me. The older one gets, the more important it is for having the world not act as if one is in the dust heap ready to die. We no longer have the relevance of being a “someone” at work. And volunteer groups generally cater to the newly retired.

And so ART for ART’S sake is OK, but it's nice to be able to sell some of them now and then so that as an increasingly less relevant person to the world, one has at least one area where people can say that they want you.

zarathu Loc: Bar Harbor, MDI, Maine

The quote was a paraphrase using metaphors to make a point. It's not a literal comment. I understood exactly what it meant: I did it in photography, and it ruined the love and joy.

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

Art for art's sake doesn't mean never seeing it. It's a description of fine art, and plenty of it is sold.

zarathu Loc: Bar Harbor, MDI, Maine

For me, at least one thing I do has to have an on-going appreciation by others. I cannot live as a hermit.

I have one subject that I do that is a skill I have developed, and offer, that no one else on the planet does. Its something that many people could use, but I cannot find people to take it. And when I offer it in settings where everyone else is at the kindergarten level and my stuff is at the graduate level, the kindergarteners do their best to get rid of me as soon as possible.

My father was an asshole, narcissist of major proportions. But despite my not wanting this learning, he impressed on me that if I COULD NOT BE THE BEST at what I was doing, then I should not bother doing it at all. And so, I have struggled to not just enjoy it but to be the best. Its not enjoyable for me unless I can be the best. All my activities don’t have to be the best on the planet, but I have to be able to rank myself as the best among peers.

If you go to https://www.facebook.com/groups/cupoty there is a photographer there whose name is Mike Moats. Hd and his father are very famous plant life photographers. When OutDoor Magazine existed in paper, Mike had articles with photos in it all the time. I post there because of Mike. If I can match his photos of flowers, then I know I am among the best in that area, and then I can enjoy what I do.

druthven

People like and want photos for many reasons and being "art" may or may nor be one of them. When I was a practicing dentist some of my photos hung in the treatment rooms. Occasionally a patient would ask if they could buy a print which I gladly provided free of charge as an unframed print. The one most requested was a black and white conversion from a Kodachrome slide of three, real, cowboys and their horses that I took circa 1953 when in high school. A nice casual portrait but hardly art. Maybe the attraction was their age span or the bowlegs of the older one, the cow ponies or maybe just because I live in Texas. Different strokes for different folks. A few years ago I did have the opportunity to meet the gentleman on the right when he was in his eighties.

(Download)

joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA

[quote=druthven]People like and want photos for many reasons and being "art" may or may nor be one of them. When I was a practicing dentist some of my photos hung in the treatment rooms. Occasionally a patient would ask if they could buy a print which I gladly provided free of charge as an unframed print. The one most requested was a black and white conversion from a Kodachrome slide of three, real, cowboys and their horses that I took circa 1953 when in high school. A nice casual portrait but hardly art. Maybe the attraction was their age span or the bowlegs of the older one, the cow ponies or maybe just because I live in Texas. Different strokes for different folks. A few years ago I did have the opportunity to meet the gentleman on the right when he was in his eighties.[/quote

A great shot, but I wouldn't have wanted to tangle with any of them

JD750 Loc: SoCal

thank you for that heartfelt reply. At my age I should be retired but I am still working. Maybe one day soon. It’s good to know what you said about being relevant. American culture does not show much respect for older citizens. It’s “no country for old men” so to say. FYI many here are retired so know that you are not alone.

Myself I don’t sell photos I just take them for my own enjoyment and sharing with friends. So I can’t help but many here do and they can advise you.

As for relevance that’s a different topic. I often ask myself “what makes our photos worth looking at”. There are many answers to that. The topic would cover many pages on UHH.

Life is short Keep shooting and enjoy your life.

pecohen Loc: Central Maine

I've taken many photos on vacations for me and my wife to enjoy. I've turned them into videos so they are easy to bring up for our enjoyment. But my wife has done some word-of-mouth advertising about these videos, drawing me into presenting them in moderately public events, to some rave reviews.

I guess the moral of this is not to sell yourself or your efforts short.

RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri

But for me it has to be "appreciated" if I'm spending my money on it.

User ID

Weii ... you can post it in the Gallery section where you get all the positive default replies such as "Great capture" and "Beautiful shot" ... or then again, maybe thaz not what you meant by "appreciated" ?

At least with food or music you know youve got positive feedback when folks clean their plate and want more, or they dance and fill your tip jar.

R.G. Loc: Scotland

What your father should have told you is that you should try to be the best that you can be, or do the best that you can do. As long as you have that objective you're above reproach. It's got nothing to do with other people. Comparing yourself to other people is a fruitless endeavour that will doom you to disappointment because there will always be somebody better than you somewhere. And the simple fact is you don't need to be the best. Becoming good at something is an achievement that you should be able to enjoy even if there are other people much better than you.

If your father wasn't able or inclined to appreciate your lesser achievements, the chances are the same attitude has rubbed off on you. Learn to appreciate what you've got, and in a similar vein learn to appreciate what you've achieved so far - both the big and the small achievements.

Hopefully you already appreciate the compliments that you get, both big and small. Even a small compliment can make something seem worthwhile. It's not vanity to seek out people who appreciate your efforts and your achievements.

We all need to think that our efforts are worthwhile. I have learned to satisfy myself with sharing my photos here and in other places. Using sales to reinforce your feelings of self worth is putting you on a downward trajectory. It's getting harder and harder to sell photos and not many people have what it takes to be notably successful selling their photos. It's no reflection on you if you don't have that.

zarathu Loc: Bar Harbor, MDI, Maine

Appreciate your reflective responses but what my crazy father(apparently you didn’t see my note that he had a narcissist personality disorder) should or should not have done is water that is not just over the dam but far out in the ocean by this time. My father died 20 years ago, and I, myself, am pushing 80 years old.

I am what I am, and I have dealt with it to the extent I can in this life.

I agree with Rodeo that for my photos to “work for me” they have to be appreciated. And not appreciated just by other photographers who know, but by the general public who really knows nothing about the amount of work I put into them. Most photographers don’t know either.

RECENTLY in my 51 person camera club(where I am both Secretary, an occasional VP) we had about the third person we’ve tried to get to teach how to do basic digital editing. None so far has been able to present the basics. They all go whole hog on the high level complicated stuff no matter what we ask them to do. But then it turns out tht the 17 people who actually attend meetings all have expensive high level digital editing programs, and none of them have any idea how to use them. One even admitted to having Affinity Photo, but to using it about 1% of the time, and prefering the 2002 Apple Photos program. And so, when I explain that a photo took 5 hours of work to make it at the OH Wow! level, they have no idea at all what that means. I might have said: “jhfgiwuy9q13rjw37n. doih2e oijhfrweu7t"