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tiff vs jpeg
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Jan 24, 2024 17:22:37   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Jack 13088 wrote:
Depends entirely on what you are going to do with the image. .jpeg refers to a file type where image data is compressed with the JPEG algorithm to reduce the size files for publishing digital images either by print or viewing.

Quoted from the introduction of the Wikipedia article:

JPEG (short for Joint Photographic Experts Group) is a commonly used method of lossy compression for digital images, particularly for those images produced by digital photography. The degree of compression can be adjusted, allowing a selectable tradeoff between storage size and image quality. JPEG typically achieves 10:1 compression with little perceptible loss in image quality. Since its introduction in 1992, JPEG has been the most widely used image compression standard in the world, and the most widely used digital image format, with several billion JPEG images produced every day as of 2015.

It compresses 8 bit image data because that exceeds the capability of commonly used monitors and printers. However, jpeg compressed image are not intended for further editing. Lossless compressed TIFF formatted data is useful for storing data intended for further editing and specialized monitors or printing.

If you are publishing the photos via the internet you use jpeg because your viewers wouldn’t know what to do with a tiff. BTW It is unlikely that your viewers are using a calibrated monitor so calibrating your monitor doesn’t help them any way.

TIFF (or PSD) are necessary for further editing at a later time but are much larger to save or send over the internet. Some high end labs can accept tiff files for printing but I don’t know if the final print is worth the cost.
Depends entirely on what you are going to do with ... (show quote)

For some, ANY lossy compression is totally unacceptable, doesn't matter if it's noticeable or not, it's a "loss"!!!!
Don't wanna loose ANY bits of data! None whatsoever!!!

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Jan 24, 2024 18:01:46   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
Yes, but it depends on the level of compression and doesn’t compare with the amount of data that gets discarded when going from 16 bits to 8. You would be hard pressed to find any difference between a JPEG saved at 100% and an 8 bit TIFF.

You'd be hard pressed to see any difference between a JPEG saved at 100% and an 8 bit TIFF -- it's very easy to find plenty of difference -- in fact more difference than between a 16 and 8 bit TIFF. The photo below of a towboat (there for reference) was saved as a 16 bit TIFF. I resized it and converted it to 8 bit. I then duplicated that 8 bit TIFF and saved it as a highest quality JPEG. I re-opened the JPEG and placed it (pixel aligned) over the 8 bit TIFF and applied a Difference blend mode -- illustration left.

Repeated the same procedure again starting with the 16 bit TIFF but instead of a JPEG I saved an 8 bit TIFF and then placed the 8 bit TIFF (pixel aligned) over the 16 bit TIFF and applied a Difference blend mode -- illustration right.

Download the illustration and the more you see a uniform tone the less difference there is between the layered images. The conversion to JPEG changed the image more than the conversion to 8 bit TIFF. What's lost in the conversion from 16 bit TIFF to 8 bit TIFF is potential -- potential for further editing specifically.




(Download)

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Jan 24, 2024 18:08:16   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
MJPerini wrote:
TFF vs Jpeg
If you shoot RAW, generally you do so because you want the greatest flexibility in editing your picture.
Best practice for maximum technical quality is to shoot RAW in a Large Gamut Color space

Raw files can't be shot in a large gamut color space -- they can't be shot in any color space. Raw data has no assigned color space. Color space assignment is done after the raw data is demosaiced and converted.

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Jan 24, 2024 18:19:32   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Ysarex wrote:
Raw files can't be shot in a large gamut color space -- they can't be shot in any color space. Raw data has no assigned color space. Color space assignment is done after the raw data is demosaiced and converted.


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Jan 24, 2024 18:28:49   #
BebuLamar
 
I use PS and I convert raw and open in PS, I save the file as *.psp if I want to edit some more in the future. I save a copy as *.jpg to use (print, give to someone, post on the web etc..). So I basically do not use *.tif. However, back in the Windows XP days I can scan my film using the Konica Minolta Dimage scanner to scan directly into PS then I did the same thing. But today with Windows 10 I can't scan directly into PS so I have to save the scan as *.tif so that I can edit in PS. Since the scanner can do 16 bit I save it as 16 bit *.tif.

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Jan 24, 2024 18:30:15   #
pecohen Loc: Central Maine
 
therwol wrote:
I have never produced a tiff in a camera. I see no advantage over RAW, especially if a tiff is 8 bit. I have thousands of 16 bit tiffs produced by a scanner, the best option for editing offered by my scanner. That's it. Different situation.


There is no standard algorithm for converting a RAW file to a TIFF file so using different editors you may get slightly different results. It's probably nothing your eye would notice but there could be slight changes in color and even in the size of the TIFF file. An advantage of opting for TIFF output instead of RAW that you would get more uniform results. This is nothing the eye would notice, but conceivably the differences might cause problems in editing, say when merging two images that used different algorithms to produce overlapping TIFF files.

Fortunately this is not something I've ever encountered; I nearly always use LR for the conversion to TIFF.

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Jan 24, 2024 18:38:00   #
cahale Loc: San Angelo, TX
 
batchld75 wrote:
What is the difference in saving an image as tiff or jpeg? I generally capture RAW images, copy, and adjust with various software tools, then I have the option to save in different formats.


Book and magazine printers used to prefer TIFF for their work. I don't think this is the case now. TIFF is on the way to Dodo-hood, I believe.

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Jan 24, 2024 22:21:51   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
Ysarex wrote:
You'd be hard pressed to see any difference between a JPEG saved at 100% and an 8 bit TIFF -- it's very easy to find plenty of difference -- in fact more difference than between a 16 and 8 bit TIFF. The photo below of a towboat (there for reference) was saved as a 16 bit TIFF. I resized it and converted it to 8 bit. I then duplicated that 8 bit TIFF and saved it as a highest quality JPEG. I re-opened the JPEG and placed it (pixel aligned) over the 8 bit TIFF and applied a Difference blend mode -- illustration left.

Repeated the same procedure again starting with the 16 bit TIFF but instead of a JPEG I saved an 8 bit TIFF and then placed the 8 bit TIFF (pixel aligned) over the 16 bit TIFF and applied a Difference blend mode -- illustration right.

Download the illustration and the more you see a uniform tone the less difference there is between the layered images. The conversion to JPEG changed the image more than the conversion to 8 bit TIFF. What's lost in the conversion from 16 bit TIFF to 8 bit TIFF is potential -- potential for further editing specifically.
You'd be hard pressed to b see /b any difference... (show quote)


Love the shot

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Jan 24, 2024 23:27:48   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Ysarex wrote:
You'd be hard pressed to see any difference between a JPEG saved at 100% and an 8 bit TIFF -- it's very easy to find plenty of difference -- in fact more difference than between a 16 and 8 bit TIFF. The photo below of a towboat (there for reference) was saved as a 16 bit TIFF. I resized it and converted it to 8 bit. I then duplicated that 8 bit TIFF and saved it as a highest quality JPEG. I re-opened the JPEG and placed it (pixel aligned) over the 8 bit TIFF and applied a Difference blend mode -- illustration left.

Repeated the same procedure again starting with the 16 bit TIFF but instead of a JPEG I saved an 8 bit TIFF and then placed the 8 bit TIFF (pixel aligned) over the 16 bit TIFF and applied a Difference blend mode -- illustration right.

Download the illustration and the more you see a uniform tone the less difference there is between the layered images. The conversion to JPEG changed the image more than the conversion to 8 bit TIFF. What's lost in the conversion from 16 bit TIFF to 8 bit TIFF is potential -- potential for further editing specifically.
You'd be hard pressed to b see /b any difference... (show quote)


You’re splitting the wrong hairs. I didn’t say there’s a bigger difference between an 8 bit TIFF and a 16 bit TIFF than an 8 bit TIFF and a JPEG. I said you’re discarding more data going from 16 bits than in saving 8 bits as a JPEG. Every bit you discard is half the data. With 8 bits you have 256 “steps” in each rgb color channel, from lightest at 0 to pure color at 255, (0,0,0 being white and 255,255,255 being black). With 16 bit channels I Adobe you get 32,769 steps, (not 65,536 as might be expected because Adobe actually implements it as 15 bits plus 1). That means there are essentially 128 steps between each step in an 8 bit channel. When you look at adjacent steps in an 8 bit color channel it’s very difficult and in some cases impossible to see the subtle difference between steps. When you compare the same pixels from a 16 bit image and it converted to 8 bits the difference in each color channel can only be from 0 to about half of an 8 bit step. Big difference in data. Small actual difference. I seriously doubt you’ll see a difference in printing between an 8 bit TIFF and a JPEG.

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Jan 25, 2024 00:14:52   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
You’re splitting the wrong hairs. I didn’t say there’s a bigger difference between an 8 bit TIFF and a 16 bit TIFF than an 8 bit TIFF and a JPEG.

I didn't say you did.
SuperflyTNT wrote:
I said you’re discarding more data going from 16 bits than in saving 8 bits as a JPEG. Every bit you discard is half the data. With 8 bits you have 256 “steps” in each rgb color channel, from lightest at 0 to pure color at 255, (0,0,0 being white and 255,255,255 being black). With 16 bit channels I Adobe you get 32,769 steps, (not 65,536 as might be expected because Adobe actually implements it as 15 bits plus 1). That means there are essentially 128 steps between each step in an 8 bit channel. When you look at adjacent steps in an 8 bit color channel it’s very difficult and in some cases impossible to see the subtle difference between steps. When you compare the same pixels from a 16 bit image and it converted to 8 bits the difference in each color channel can only be from 0 to about half of an 8 bit step. Big difference in data. Small actual difference.
I said you’re discarding more data going from 16 b... (show quote)

So 16 bits is overkill on top of overkill UNLESS you need the editing potential. So discarding un-needed potential is of no concern. An image ready to save in the JPEG archive format needs no further editing so 8 bits is more than adequate.
SuperflyTNT wrote:
I seriously doubt you’ll see a difference in printing between an 8 bit TIFF and a JPEG.

I know that for a fact; as I said, "You'd be hard pressed to see any difference..."

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Jan 25, 2024 07:30:53   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Ysarex wrote:
I know that for a fact; as I said, "You'd be hard pressed to see any difference..."



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Jan 25, 2024 07:45:22   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Consider this:

Instructor: "Type this short document into computer A...
How long did it take you?

Student: "About 5 minutes."

Instructor: "Now type the same document into computer B...
How long did it take you?

Student: "About 5 minutes. Why?

Instructor: "Computer B runs 10 times faster than computer A".
Did you notice any difference?"

Student: "No, they both seemed the same."

Perception........

Ten time the speed or ten times the data, it depends on the process.

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Jan 25, 2024 11:14:55   #
Traveller_Jeff
 
therwol wrote:


When I scanned my negatives/slides/prints, I scanned to 16 bit tiff files. That's another animal, capturing far greater color depth. I edited those and saved them as jpegs.


Which scanner are you using? Thanks.

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Jan 25, 2024 16:25:50   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
Traveller_Jeff wrote:
Which scanner are you using? Thanks.


I used an Epson V800, the precursor to the current V850. The best the Epson software would let me do was 16 bit black and white or 48 bit color, saved as tiff files. Some scanner software will let you save as DNG. I stuck with the Epson software because of very accurate indexing of film strips. Vuescan and Silverfast gave me fits with this. It doesn't matter. I'm satisfied with the results. When I was finished (scanning all of my negatives and slides was a one time deal), I sold the scanner on UHH for a very good price.

If you're looking for a film scanner, consider that dedicated film scanners give better results than flatbed scanners. I needed high volume and the ability to scan large format negatives.

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Jan 26, 2024 00:03:34   #
jdubu Loc: San Jose, CA
 
I usually produce an end file as a highest quality jpeg or srgb jpeg for web, depending on the end use. Sometimes both. But I always edit, save and store my working files as 16bit Tiff or PSDs. The main reason I do is because my work for others involves working with PS layers, masks and adjustments. If I need to go back and fine tune anything, I only have to go to the relevant layer or adjustment. Any work done previously is still there and I don't need to start from scratch.

Because of that, I do all my personal work in the same manner because that workflow is my standard.

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