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Rant for all Eternity — Did you read it?
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Jan 24, 2024 11:45:06   #
dustie Loc: Nose to the grindstone
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
Reminds me of a joke.
A small town guy from the south moved to the big city applied to be a salesman at a big box store that sold just about everything. The manager said “we demand a lot from our salespeople. I’ll give you a shot but we demand results”.
At the end of the first day the manager asked how many sales he had, the guy responded “one”. The manager asked, “what did you sell and how much did we make?” The guy said “well, he was buying a fishhook and the sale was $185,000. I told him you probably want some fishing line and a rod and reel with that and some tackle. I then said to get to the best fishing spots he’d need a boat. Then he needed a way to transport the boat so he’d need a trailer. I knew his little car wouldn’t pull that trailer so I sold him a truck. It all came to $185,000”.
The manager said, “so this guy came in to buy a fishhook and you sold him all that?”
The guy said, “no, he came in to buy tampons, I said hey your weekend’s shot. You might as well go fishing”
Reminds me of a joke. br A small town guy from th... (show quote)


😅😅
What page of the JEnglish, GEnglish, FEnglish, KEnglish, REnglish, SpEnglish, ChEnglish Quick-Start-Guide has that beauty?

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Jan 24, 2024 11:45:07   #
Dikdik Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
 
Carl S wrote:
and asked the helpful hardware man for the owners manual, and loved the look on his face!


I remember 30 or 40 years back, I was working for an engineering office in Edmonton... after work, we would sit back and have a few beers. It was the time of metrification in Canada. I called up Alberta Government Telephones (AGT) to find out when they were going to go metric for telephone numbers. The operator didn't know, so I asked if she could find out and let me know. I got a call back and was informed that AGT had no intention to convert their numbers to metric. There are other parts to his episode.

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Jan 24, 2024 11:45:08   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Come on Bill, most every single day here on UHH, we see an age-old truism: Success is the photographer. Failure is the equipment.

The slightest unknown behavior is always met with the immediate assumption: the camera is broken, where do I sent it for a fix?

Personally, I do my best to have already downloaded PDF copies of all the relevant Advanced User's Manuals. A simple text-search nearly always enables a helpful response pointing to the relevant page number(s), sometimes even with annotated screen captures of the page / diagram.

And yet, again tomorrow, will be the same question, based on the same assumption: Success is the photographer. Failure is the equipment.
Come on Bill, most every single day here on UHH, w... (show quote)




NOT… But I agree that that seems to be the attitude or sentiment.

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Jan 24, 2024 11:49:38   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Dikdik wrote:
I remember 30 or 40 years back, I was working for an engineering office in Edmonton... after work, we would sit back and have a few beers. It was the time of metrification in Canada. I called up Alberta Government Telephones (AGT) to find out when they were going to go metric for telephone numbers. The operator didn't know, so I asked if she could find out and let me know. I got a call back and was informed that AGT had no intention to convert their numbers to metric. There are other parts to his episode.
I remember 30 or 40 years back, I was working for ... (show quote)


Rolling on the floor laughing!

That's like a scene from a Monty Python movie. Metric phone numbers! What a concept!

Last I checked, a phone number isn't a means of measurement. It just IS… a sequence of digits. Which makes the joke so funny.

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Jan 24, 2024 11:55:54   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
That’s not the only reason they don’t include a paper manual. With modern mirrorless cameras the manuals can push upwards of 1000 pages. Not only would a manual of that size be unwieldy, but not only would there be the expense of printing, it would create logistical issues and really increase shipping costs. And are you going to carry a 1000 page manual in your camera bag? I always have the manual when I need it, on my phone or tablet.


One of the big reasons that they don't print them is that the camera has a computer in it, and the FIRMWARE that runs the computer can be updated. When they update the firmware, they would have to issue an addendum section to the manual, or print a new manual. Instead, they just revise the PDF and make it available on their website so you can download it to your smartphone (or tablet or computer) and have it with you wherever you go.

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Jan 24, 2024 11:59:26   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
47greyfox wrote:
Your statement rang a bell with me. I use the same approach with car and camera manuals. First read is geared toward “what do I need to get this thing working?” Subsequent reads are with a particular task/need in mind. How do I do something? Most manuals IMHO fail miserably because they do a decent job telling you “how” to do something, but rarely describe the circumstances or why that got you to that page in the first place. Nor do they describe the impact of a setting. “If you do this then you can’t do that.” How many times have we set something in a camera and later find another setting greyed out, then wonder why. It simply shouldn’t be that painful. I own a number of Canons and the Canon manual for each is on my iPad. Camera operation questions usually start with the manual for simple tasks where a quick answer will do. But…if I have a scenario question, I usually go to a camera ebook by EOS mag’s Nina Bailey or David Busch. Reading a 700+ page manual with no thought of “why” or context is a painful waste of time.
Your statement rang a bell with me. I use the same... (show quote)


Although I have done just that full read, I agree with your approach. If you've had six cameras before the current one, you can concentrate on what's new and different, although if you switched brands, you'll be doing more than that, because of the differences in approach from brand to brand. But you do get more and more efficient as you live life.

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Jan 24, 2024 12:08:14   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
burkphoto wrote:
Although I have done just that full read, I agree with your approach. If you've had six cameras before the current one, you can concentrate on what's new and different, although if you switched brands, you'll be doing more than that, because of the differences in approach from brand to brand. But you do get more and more efficient as you live life.


What I've noticed is how little camera manuals ever actually change. They have the same usage examples, the same usage example images. Typically, especially for Canon and Nikon, the only portion of the manual that is updated for new manuals is new functionality. Reading one and understanding the content means you've read about 90% of every manual for that brand of camera. Alas, for manual failures like Sony, reading one in full leaves you unsure of roughly 90% of the camera functionality.

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Jan 24, 2024 12:08:44   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
dustie wrote:
Do the ones who have learned to write clearly -- use spelling, grammar and punctuation correctly -- know the when, why and how of the camera functions? If they were assigned to a customer helpline station, could they fluently, efficiently provide any help to the frustrated, stumped customer?


That is a matter of corporate training. If there is one thing that most companies don't do well, it is to cross train employees enough for them to know the company's purpose, customer, and products.

You can know your job, but if you don't know your company, its products, why customers buy them, and what they do with them, you don't know jack squat.

That is why many companies have several levels of technical support. The phone answerer can look up answers to common questions in an FAQ database. Even a 'bot on the Internet can be programmed to do that.

But if a user has a question that involves the tech support person asking more questions to determine the context and the use case, it gets tricky! Veteran employees get those calls.

I took A LOT of those calls. A couple of them involved inviting big customers in for a meeting, a tour, and a training session, so they could FINALLY understand WTF we were talking about. That proved to be good business. It turned irate customers into clients and champions of our brand.

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Jan 24, 2024 12:09:12   #
dustie Loc: Nose to the grindstone
 
Dikdik wrote:
I remember 30 or 40 years back, I was working for an engineering office in Edmonton... after work, we would sit back and have a few beers. It was the time of metrification in Canada. I called up Alberta Government Telephones (AGT) to find out when they were going to go metric for telephone numbers. The operator didn't know, so I asked if she could find out and let me know. I got a call back and was informed that AGT had no intention to convert their numbers to metric. There are other parts to his episode.
I remember 30 or 40 years back, I was working for ... (show quote)


I recall a situation, probably around the same time frame, 40 years at least, I think, a DJ on a Calgary station was running a little call-in segment to put callers on the air for some questions.
The main purpose of his segment was to see how people were adjusting to the switch from Fahrenheit temp readings to Celsius.

When a caller was on the line, the DJ would ask them to guess the temperature in various cities/towns -- Edmonton, Red Deer, Banff, Olds, Trochu, etc. -- without specifying whether he wanted the guess to be in °F or °C.
One caller had guessed all the temps in Fahrenheit, and gotten them quite close to what the DJ had in his most recent list of temps around the region. The DJ expressed his admiration for the caller's good guesses of the temps, then asked, "What do you think those temperatures are in Celsius?"

.....................................................
*********************************

......after a 20 or 25 second silence, the caller replied, "Where's that!?!?!?"

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Jan 24, 2024 12:10:40   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
What I've noticed is how little camera manuals ever actually change. They have the same usage examples, the same usage example images. Typically, especially for Canon and Nikon, the only portion of the manual that is updated for new manuals is new functionality. Reading one and understanding the content means you've read about 90% of every manual for that brand of camera. Alas, for manual failures like Sony, reading one in full leaves you unsure of roughly 90% of the camera functionality.
What I've noticed is how little camera manuals eve... (show quote)


Yep. I read the Canon EOS 20D manual cover to cover. The 30D, 40D, and 50D were extremely similar.

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Jan 24, 2024 12:13:00   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
burkphoto wrote:
Yep. I read the Canon EOS 20D manual cover to cover. The 30D, 40D, and 50D were extremely similar.


I was amazed how closely the DSLR manuals matched word to word to the T-series Canon SLRs ...

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Jan 24, 2024 12:13:55   #
MJPerini
 
burkphoto wrote:
If it makes you feel better! I felt better after my rant.


That is often the case..... I commend you for taking the time to write it.

It was very much worth the time it took to read, and "If it makes you feel better, I felt better after having read it" .....;-))

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Jan 24, 2024 12:15:08   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
dustie wrote:
I recall a situation, probably around the same time frame, 40 years at least, I think, a DJ on a Calgary station was running a little call-in segment to put callers on the air for some questions.
The main purpose of his segment was to see how people were adjusting to the switch from Fahrenheit temp readings to Celsius.

When a caller was on the line, the DJ would ask them to guess the temperature in various cities/towns -- Edmonton, Red Deer, Banff, Olds, Trochu, etc. -- without specifying whether he wanted the guess to be in °F or °C.
One caller had guessed all the temps in Fahrenheit, and gotten them quite close to what the DJ had in his most recent list of temps around the region. The DJ expressed his admiration for the caller's good guesses of the temps, then asked, "What do you think those temperatures are in Celsius?"

.....................................................
*********************************

......after a 20 or 25 second silence, the caller replied, "Where's that!?!?!?"
I recall a situation, probably around the same tim... (show quote)


Most thermometers in the USA have both scales on them. Sadly, most Americans don't pay attention to °C. My car has a button on the dash to change MPH to KPH. It's easy to push it instead of the button beside it. Suddenly you're doing 100 instead of 63... without changing your speed! The first time it happens, its a bit freaky.

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Jan 24, 2024 12:16:50   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
MJPerini wrote:
That is often the case..... I commend you for taking the time to write it.

It was very much worth the time it took to read, and "If it makes you feel better, I felt better after having read it" .....;-))


Thanks! If one person thought about it and decided to take responsibility for their own growth, its worth it.

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Jan 24, 2024 12:22:03   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
In days of old when knights were bold...photoghay was practiced by few. When a late image formed on some coated plate, it had to be "developed" in a dark place with toxic metals and gasses, pungent, often deadly chemicals- not fothe average civilian! Perhaps it was thought of as some sort of witchcraft carried on by my mad scientist or wizard in cave-like places.

Then came old George Eastman (well after Deguerre and Nepeace) who sold folks simple box cameras with film and said these immortal words "push the button and leave the rest to us" or something like that- or was that Grayhoud, the bus folks who said 'leave the driving to us"? Well, y'all know waht I mean.

The "brownie" was very basic but as more folks became photo enthusiasts and pros, more complicated and adjustable cameras were designed proliferated, and sold tothe masses. Some folks wanted to do their own "driving" so they constructed darkrooms and processed and printed their own images. This went on for a very long time in both the consumer and professional worlds- things evolved

Serious photoghaer had to master various skills as to exposure, focus, depth of fielild or lack thereof, and all that good stuff. Exposure meters were popular. Then, meters were built into cameras. And the various basics- exposure, focus, etc. became automated. Nontheless, if your camera had an adjustable shutter, aperture, and a mechanism for focusing, and you knew about the basic triangle that governs their usage and how they interface for various effects- you were good to go. A little manual, a little auto, and a few cool gadgets- take your pick and do your thing.

Are we moving "forward" to digital photography or in a way moving backward? The Great Yellow Spirit of Rocherst is no longer with us - Kodak ain't what used to be but, has Gorige's ghost come to haunt us. Nowadays it's "press the button and leave the PHOTOGRAPHY to ME says your camera and if you want anything to say about it, you better read MY 300-page manual and figure out how to override my decisions"!

Alright, excuse the hyperbole! But I have reasons. In my days as a wedding and press photographer, we took every precaution to prevent accidental mis-settings. As soon as the press cameras came with front-end leaf shutters we all removed the rear end focal plane shutters to avoid possible activation. We screwed down the M-X Synch switch to X and any other switch, adjustment, or lever that could cause serious problems. We didn't want to miss vital shots because of all these possible glitches. KISS was the acronym.

Then came the day when I realized that my studio would need to go digital. I tested a few NEW and popular models and was horrified. One camera REFUSED to shoot if IT thought the exposure was off. The data in the viewfinder looks more like the flight deck of a jet aircraft. There were little batons all over the thing that could set the entire system off in another direction. The menu- forgetabout! Yes- I know, I can shut most of that stuff
off but I PAID for all of it. And...if I'd accidently pulled the wrong switch the robotic monster would come back from the dead.An accident waiting to happen! The first thing I did was go out and buy a digital conversion foty studio camer for ase I- $$$ just to keep things simple.

Years have passed and today I am well-steeped in too much technology. I am still a bit reactionary when it comes to gear. The new Nikon digital model looks like an F-series body but is a modern mirrorless camera, that appeals to me- I like dials.

I do read manuals- thoroughly. I will try to secure a manual even before I make a major camera purchase. Some seem to be written a secret code and a few are poorly translated from the language spoken in the place they were made. You have got to do the homework or you can always neglect the manual and then post on UHH and ask waht you did wrong and start a 12-page argument!

8:15 PM 2024/23/01 Rant (2) Over!
In days of old when knights were bold...photoghay ... (show quote)


In the school portrait biz, we would lock things down and (figuratively) rip the knobs off, too.

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