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Jan 23, 2024 09:54:34   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
The problems with floppies and other magnetic tape media is that the polymer matrix "relaxes" and iron particles reorient then data are lost.

Time frame?

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Jan 23, 2024 10:29:58   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
Longshadow wrote:
Time frame?


It varies, but when I look at old VHS tapes, the degradation seems to begin within the first 10-20 years. I haven't had a computer that reads 5-1/4 floppies so I can't guess. I know the old "ZIP" drives were showing degradation after 20 years.

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Jan 23, 2024 10:31:05   #
elee950021 Loc: New York, NY
 
Chessysailor wrote:
Just curious. How do businesses and governments keep up with the information that they collect? Punch cards to magnetic tape to RAID to ...I don't know what comes next. I guess they have to periodically rerecord old stuff on to the latest and greatest device.


See this article: https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2013/05/08/iron-mountain#close-modal

Be well! Happy New Year! Ed

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Jan 23, 2024 12:56:34   #
Tote1940 Loc: Dallas
 
Just finished digitizing around 300 cassette with family voice letters and memories on my last working CD machine
Oldest mid 70’s
Yes oxide flaking a problem , had to clean heads often
Some print through less than expected
Main problem leader had broken off from tape, guess glue failed
Mostly cheap KMart or off brand tapes
Have heard of some folks still using reel to reel tapes today but for sure tape is not the way to go for archival purposes

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Jan 23, 2024 21:54:32   #
Burkley Loc: Park City
 
There are archival digital discs that last decades. The problem is who knows if any devices will be able to read the disc in 20 years. Tapes degrade. Hard drives, both HDD and SSD, also degrade over time. As stated before by people on UHH wiser than me, the best way to keep digital records seems to be to continually consolidate digital materials and transfer them to new storage media every few years. The cloud also becomes an important backup.

If you have an old format but no device to read it, there are family history/genealogy centers that have about every recording device known to man and can move the data to new drives. The family history centers are supported by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, so there are several of them here in Utah. I assume they are in most cities because I have also seen them on trips to Manhattan and Hilton Head. They are open to every one. The people were very helpful, extremely knowledgeable.

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Jan 24, 2024 08:41:54   #
chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Hopefully, the entire UHH Community who gleefully creates physical media will finally once and for all realize they're wasting their time and risking their memories. We've been here for a decade talking about this risk: consumer-grade physical media will not last, not your CDs, not your DVDs. If your only copy is physical media, and these memories are important, get them copied back onto actively used and actively backed-up and actively maintained equipment, hard-disk and / or cloud.


Two other options - MDISC (a bit more expensive than regular DVD/BD media-100 year lifespan-you also need a drive capable of recording M discs) and LTO tape (up to 30 years -very expensive generally for medium to large enterprises). These media are good for longer term storage that is not regularly accessed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC

The intermediate solution is a local NAS storage device with RAID5 stripping, backed up with cloud storage. I got a Buffalo unit from Egghead last year for about $650 and came with 16 TB native, 11 TB with RAID5 overhead. Works well and is well made (in Japan!). Paired with the cloud it works well for off site redundancy against theft and fire.

Least budget option is multiple hard drives stored securely but keep in mind spinning hard drives and SSD media have shorter term data integrity, so get an M disc drive if you can for the "precious" files. Also how any media is stored is just as important for its longevity....think media safes....it must be rated for computer media.

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Jan 24, 2024 09:15:47   #
avflinsch Loc: Hamilton, New Jersey
 
Chessysailor wrote:
Just curious. How do businesses and governments keep up with the information that they collect? Punch cards to magnetic tape to RAID to ...I don't know what comes next. I guess they have to periodically rerecord old stuff on to the latest and greatest device.


It all depends.

I work in software development for a major university (Rutgers) and we get the occasional requirement to print a very old transcript. Depending on the last time the student attended we have different methods.
If the student was on the old computer system that we transferred from in the early 80's there is a skeleton record (mostly basic info, and the degree earned but no course info) - the info is located on old microfiche and the courses are re-entered manually before the transcript can be produced. Sometimes we actually need to recreate the courses in the course catalog before we can do that.

Sometimes the person wasn't on the old system, then they locate the physical handwritten transcript and the student is completely entered into the current system recreating entries in the course database as needed also.

We are planning on transitioning to a new integrated system sometime in the next 5 years (we have been promised that the new system will arrive in the next few years since I started working there in 2003).

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Jan 24, 2024 09:49:50   #
charles tabb Loc: Richmond VA.
 
Chessysailor wrote:
I was cleaning out a junk drawer and found some photo CDs that were 15-20 years old. Most of them loaded OK although they seem to take longer to load than I would have expected. I then tried to transfer them to my offline drive. It looked like the transfer would work but then my system locked up - no mouse, no kb, nothing. I would then reboot and try the transfer again. Sometimes it would work, but more often than not it would hang up again. This might be happening for several reasons, but I'm curious if anyone has had problems with old CDs.
I was cleaning out a junk drawer and found some ph... (show quote)


I had the same kind of problem that you described. I turned the record side face up and found several fingerprints on the record side plus a small scratch. I carefully removed the finger prints with a lens cleaning rag and buffed out the scratch with some disk scratch remover. after that all went well. I have about 3,000 disks with movies on them and having them in jewel cases have played them back after having had them for many years.

Hope this might help.

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