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Jan 15, 2024 14:37:07   #
Dikdik Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
 
That vehicle will soon be a vehicle of the past...

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Jan 15, 2024 14:43:31   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Dikdik wrote:
That vehicle will soon be a vehicle of the past...

Which one is that?

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Jan 15, 2024 15:41:40   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Ruthlessrider wrote:
Please don’t think for a moment that Democrats are the only ones doing this. In Wisconsin, our Republican legislature has put licensing fees for Hybrids and EV almost twice what ICV are paying. By all means, let’s not try to reward people who are trying to help solve a problem. It wasn’t bad enough that I had to pay taxes on the 32 solar panel array I put in to do the same thing.


I'm not familiar with Wisconsin politics, but there is some reasoning behind increasing licensing fees for EVs. Road maintenance is funded through fuel taxes. The fuel taxes are not (yet) levied on electricity. If the EVs are to take over a significant fraction of the population of vehicles using the roads, then maintenance costs have to be expanded to cover the EVs somehow. There has been discussion of increasing licensing fees for hybrid vehicles also since their increased gas mileage dilutes their contribution to road maintenance costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if they required EV chargers to run off a separate line and get charged a separate rate. That would put some of the responsibility to collect taxes on the electric utilities, and they would take a cut also for their trouble.

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Jan 15, 2024 15:53:10   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
Ruthlessrider wrote:
Yes, I’m sure we are all capable of what you are describing, not. A long time ago we decided there was more economy of gain to be had by having a government hire experts in a field to analyze a problem and help us determine what would be the best the way for to solve that problem than for each of us to go our separate ways and muck things up more than they already are. What we didn’t count on was having a bunch of know nothing politicians sticking their noses in second guessing the experts.


Who and when is "a long time ago we decided" The way you present your points of view would lead one to believe that you consider yourself one of those "experts". I don't recall ever voting to give anyone that kind of authority and our constitution was specifically written to limit the federal government to things like defense, foreign affairs and interstate commerce. The 10th amendment specifically states that if it's not mentioned in the constitution it falls to the states or the people.

You obviously are not a fan of a free-market economy and prefer a socialist form of government where the government decides what's best for us. Free market economics has done more to raise the world out of poverty than any other system. Socialism has failed every time it has been tried and it has been tried a lot. No system is perfect but capitalism has by far the best record when everyone acts in their own self interest.

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Jan 15, 2024 15:57:43   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
Ruthlessrider wrote:
Please don’t think for a moment that Democrats are the only ones doing this. In Wisconsin, our Republican legislature has put licensing fees for Hybrids and EV almost twice what ICV are paying. By all means, let’s not try to reward people who are trying to help solve a problem. It wasn’t bad enough that I had to pay taxes on the 32 solar panel array I put in to do the same thing.



Totally Agree, NO REWARDS including federal government subsidies and tax breaks for EV's, Battery plants, solar farms and other construction projects, they should advance on their own merits. Local officials want to subsidize, they have the option since its locally controlled...However, the other side of that coin is the EV drivers pay no gas tax and still have the same or more, impact on the roads. Besides, maybe that tax is the state getting back some of the taxpayer subsidies that the government GIVES to EV buyers....Cheers!

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Jan 15, 2024 16:07:46   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
Who and when is "a long time ago we decided" The way you present your points of view would lead one to believe that you consider yourself one of those "experts". I don't recall ever voting to give anyone that kind of authority and our constitution was specifically written to limit the federal government to things like defense, foreign affairs and interstate commerce. The 10th amendment specifically states that if it's not mentioned in the constitution it falls to the states or the people.

You obviously are not a fan of a free-market economy and prefer a socialist form of government where the government decides what's best for us. Free market economics has done more to raise the world out of poverty than any other system. Socialism has failed every time it has been tried and it has been tried a lot. No system is perfect but capitalism has by far the best record when everyone acts in their own self interest.
Who and when is "a long time ago we decided&q... (show quote)



Not to mention that it was the government hired "experts" like Fauci and the NIH, to name a few, who morphed into permanent government "bureaucrats" and quite frankly lost all credibility and should no longer have been considered experts. If the government wants experts, so easy to contract with them, there are more than enough scientific labs, corporations, organizations, universities that have the expertise needed rather than hiring so-called experts who then become bureaucrats.

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Jan 15, 2024 16:07:54   #
Retina Loc: Near Charleston,SC
 
Ruthlessrider wrote:
...Taxes are higher in most European countries and yet in every survey I an aware of( and I admittedly have not seen them all) Europeans rate their satisfaction with social, political, and economic well-being much higher than than we do...

They were born into a generally more socialist system and are accustomed to the concept of redistribution of personal wealth. They also do not have a mainstream press constantly echoing mantras of racial division on which the Left depends. (Compare the number of references to race in both the GOP and Dem platforms.)
Ruthlessrider wrote:
...I was born in 1947 and for the life of me I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “we have already lost significant amount of freedom.” I don’t feel like I have lost any freedom at all, of course I am a white male. I might feel differently if I were a woman of child bearing age.

A proper discussion among proponents of the Need to Protect Life vs the Right to Kill the Unborn is too deep for this forum. Besides, the degree of both open-mindedness and an understanding of human development needed for such a debate are all but absent among the latter group. If it were not so, it would cease to be an issue.

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Jan 15, 2024 16:08:53   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
Retina wrote:
Proponents of the Need to Protect Life vs the Right to Kill the Unborn is too deep for this forum. Besides, the degree of both open-mindedness and an understanding of human development needed for a proper discussion are non-existent with the latter group.



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Jan 15, 2024 16:22:20   #
MauiMoto Loc: Hawaii
 
fourlocks wrote:
So what's the answer for the car emissions problem? Cars represent the planet's single largest source of greenhouse gas emissions; far more than power plants, arctic methane releases, industrial sources, etc. I don't want to get into an argument about the validity of human contributions to climate change but even the nay sayers admit climate change exists and if we can reduce its effects to leave a viable planet to our grand children, shouldn't we?

In the late 1800's when steam (and even electric) were the chief automobile power sources, gas cars were in the same position as EVs, today. We just need to improve the technology or find a better one. Unfortunately, we can't waste 50 years waiting to see what comes along.
So what's the answer for the car emissions problem... (show quote)


The motive behind the climate agenda is a malevolent monopoly of every resource on the planet. The carbon that they want to eliminate is us. We are comprised of more than 25% of the hydrocarbon cholesterol, c27h46o. Our brain, at least some of us, is more than half cholesterol and every cell in every living thing is built from carbon molecules from co2. Plants combine 6 molecules of h2o and 6 co2 molecules and make a hydrated carbon molecule c6h12o6 also known as sugar and release the 6 o2 molecules separated from the carbon atoms. There cannot be too much co2 unless all the plants are eliminated. We need to at least double the current co2 level to end the monsanto/bayer monopoly on food. Also, the co2 level follows the heat, not the other way around, the whole thing is a banker scam that gained steam in the 70s with maurice strong, Rockefeller (un treasurer) and the Trilateral commission. 20th century eugenics originated with the Rockefellers not the Nazis as we were told. If you want to understand how so many people can be sold such idiocy like covid or climate change, look into Edward Bernays and the Tavistock Institute of Human Relations which was Wellington House, mi6 prior to ww2 and created all the propaganda(social engineering) agencies like cia, Mossad, kgb etc. after ww2. Always follow the money.

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Jan 15, 2024 16:59:10   #
MauiMoto Loc: Hawaii
 
Ollieboy wrote:
A gasoline powered car will not burst into flame by itself or when filling the tank.


I have also heard of occupants burning or suffocating in EVs because the doors are electronic. So when there is a failure the doors cannot open.
I also know a tow truck company that won't touch them because they're so dangerous. Another who will only take it somewhere other than their storage lot.
I watched automobiles go from easy to repair to only repairable with specialized expensive equipment to warnings of death if you touch something.



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Jan 15, 2024 17:21:17   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
Blaster34 wrote:
Not to mention that it was the government hired "experts" like Fauci and the NIH, to name a few, who morphed into permanent government "bureaucrats" and quite frankly lost all credibility and should no longer have been considered experts. If the government wants experts, so easy to contract with them, there are more than enough scientific labs, corporations, organizations, universities that have the expertise needed rather than hiring so-called experts who then become bureaucrats.
Not to mention that it was the government hired &q... (show quote)


I feel your frustration with how government operates. I think you underestimate the free market vs experts concept. "Experts" are limited in the breadth of their knowledge to specific fields. There are very few Leonardos among us. No matter how many experts you assemble from universities, private sector, NGOs, etc. they can not compete with the free market. The free market is open to anyone who has any knowledge on a specific subject who offer their skills for a price and are in competition with others with similar skills. Literally millions of transactions of this sort happen every day where the output is products which meet all of the specification as the lowest price. It also includes knowledge that has been gained over thousands of years so it also takes into account, traditions, jurisprudence, lore and other sources.

This concept is being demonstrated to us right now by the space industry. NASA was created to be the government experts. NASA has built rockets that took us to earth orbit, the moon and all of the planets in our solar system and has spent billions of dollars doing so and several years to develop. Private industries like SpaceX are developing far cheaper, reusable vehicles which dramatically lowering the cost per pound to put something into orbit. NASA's future role should be to implement space policy and the private sector will supply the resources and labor to make these policies reality. And SpaceX already has quite a lineup of competitors. NASA launches space vehicles every couple of months, the private sector is launching vehicles weekly. SpaceX has a parking lot full of launch vehicles which can be prepared for flight in days.

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Jan 15, 2024 17:29:26   #
MauiMoto Loc: Hawaii
 
jaymatt wrote:
I am a firm believer in climate change. I do not, however, believe that there is anything that we can do about it because it is a natural occurrence. Weather history shows us that there have been climate cycle changes for thousands of years.

If there is such an entity as Mother Nature, she is surely laughing in our faces at our thinking we can change it. Roll with the punches, my friends, roll with the punches.

If the bigwigs touting these claims really believed what they say, they would stop flying their private jets to their meetings all over the world. I have read that these juants cause more pollution in a day or two than all the car exhaust emitted in one year.

P.S. This morning I am a victim of climate change/global warming; it is -4 degrees here in Alexandria this morning.
I am a firm believer in climate change. I do not, ... (show quote)


These people believe that they are better than the rest of us. I forget who said this in public speaking for this this wealthy elites, he proposed, something besides just taxes that the peasants must justify their existence to the state on why they should be allowed to live another year.

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Jan 15, 2024 17:39:09   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
I feel your frustration with how government operates. I think you underestimate the free market vs experts concept. "Experts" are limited in the breadth of their knowledge to specific fields. There are very few Leonardos among us. No matter how many experts you assemble from universities, private sector, NGOs, etc. they can not compete with the free market. The free market is open to anyone who has any knowledge on a specific subject who offer their skills for a price and are in competition with others with similar skills. Literally millions of transactions of this sort happen every day where the output is products which meet all of the specification as the lowest price. It also includes knowledge that has been gained over thousands of years so it also takes into account, traditions, jurisprudence, lore and other sources.

This concept is being demonstrated to us right now by the space industry. NASA was created to be the government experts. NASA has built rockets that took us to earth orbit, the moon and all of the planets in our solar system and has spent billions of dollars doing so and several years to develop. Private industries like SpaceX are developing far cheaper, reusable vehicles which dramatically lowering the cost per pound to put something into orbit. NASA's future role should be to implement space policy and the private sector will supply the resources and labor to make these policies reality. And SpaceX already has quite a lineup of competitors. NASA launches space vehicles every couple of months, the private sector is launching vehicles weekly. SpaceX has a parking lot full of launch vehicles which can be prepared for flight in days.
I feel your frustration with how government operat... (show quote)


CORRECT, I totally agree with your analysis, the private sector is much better suited to do much of what government does, far more efficiently. BTW, looks like SpaceX wants to double last year’s launch numbers, an excellent goal. As for weekly? It’s almost daily, I watch them every time they launch at Canaveral….Cheers

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Jan 15, 2024 17:55:05   #
bikinkawboy Loc: north central Missouri
 
A lot of strong opinions here! Here’s mine:

Yes capitalism is the most effective way for people to extricate themselves from poverty. Look at China. Their standard of living has gone up tremendously. Yes they still have a Communist federal government, but they’ve had to let regular people practice capitalism.

Europeans are happier than Americans are. Compared to what? Pretty hard to compare without having been on the other side.

I was married to a woman from Australia for a short time. What they call democracy we call socialism. Their democracy has no Bill of Rights like we do. That’s how their government was able to take away and prevent citizens from owning guns. And if you didn’t turn your weapons in, you faced prison time. There was no letting the people vote on gun ownership, some politicians made that decision on their own and to hell with what the public wanted.

Her son and I had some very in depth discussions on how our governments differed. Something I’ve never forgotten was when he said, “Your Bill of Rights is to keep your government from taking over. We don’t have anything like that.”

His mother and I were watching the local news. It showed some neo-Nazis peacefully marching in Jefferson City MO and a bunch of protesters jumped some of them and were arrested by the police. She couldn’t believe the cops arrested the “good guys” and let the bad guys go on with their parade. I explained that our first amendment guarantees freedom of speech even if the people or the cops don’t like what they say. The marchers had obtained the necessary permits and were being peaceful, hence the first amendment worked like it was supposed to.

So it’s hard to say that Europeans are happier than we are because they don’t know what it’s like here. Sweden is a socialist government with free higher education, free healthcare and so on. My buddy’s cousin runs a furniture factory in Sweden and the government takes 90% of his wages. Not a lot of incentive to work harder and earn more money if the government takes most of it to support the lazy deadbeats who know they are going to get the same services without working as those that do work.

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Jan 15, 2024 18:13:23   #
MauiMoto Loc: Hawaii
 
APS wrote:
Evs are a dead issue. No farmer can farm with an EV. No trucker can deliver loads on time with an EV. The sooner the USA understands how stupid this whole idea is the better.
We are at risk of destroying our economy and radically reduce our lifestyles.
Anyone who thinks socialism is the answer is absolutely wrong. We have already lost significant amount of freedom through heavy taxes and limited access. I feel sorry for the next generation. They will look at their parents and say “ what is wrong with you?!”
Evs are a dead issue. No farmer can farm with an E... (show quote)


For lack of knowledge my people are destroyed. Rockefeller eugenics has literally convinced humanity commit suicide so they can have the planet for themselves.

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