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Jan 15, 2024 12:09:46   #
APS Loc: Southern Indiana
 
Evs are a dead issue. No farmer can farm with an EV. No trucker can deliver loads on time with an EV. The sooner the USA understands how stupid this whole idea is the better.
We are at risk of destroying our economy and radically reduce our lifestyles.
Anyone who thinks socialism is the answer is absolutely wrong. We have already lost significant amount of freedom through heavy taxes and limited access. I feel sorry for the next generation. They will look at their parents and say “ what is wrong with you?!”

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Jan 15, 2024 12:56:59   #
Dikdik Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
 
We'll have to wait and see... I suspect they will become more and more important.

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Jan 15, 2024 13:17:00   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
APS wrote:
Evs are a dead issue. No farmer can farm with an EV. No trucker can deliver loads on time with an EV. The sooner the USA understands how stupid this whole idea is the better.
We are at risk of destroying our economy and radically reduce our lifestyles.
Anyone who thinks socialism is the answer is absolutely wrong. We have already lost significant amount of freedom through heavy taxes and limited access. I feel sorry for the next generation. They will look at their parents and say “ what is wrong with you?!”
Evs are a dead issue. No farmer can farm with an E... (show quote)



The fire truck will be there as soon as it's done charging......

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Jan 15, 2024 13:28:37   #
BebuLamar
 
rcarol wrote:
you mention that charging at home is very economical. If yoou live in one of California's many apartment complexes, you don't have that option.


Yes the requirement to own an EV is to have a house that you can have a charger installed and also own a gasoline powered car. Without either having an EV would be troublesome.

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Jan 15, 2024 13:31:51   #
Sirsnapalot Loc: Hammond, Louisiana
 
APS wrote:
Evs are a dead issue. No farmer can farm with an EV. No trucker can deliver loads on time with an EV. The sooner the USA understands how stupid this whole idea is the better.
We are at risk of destroying our economy and radically reduce our lifestyles.
Anyone who thinks socialism is the answer is absolutely wrong. We have already lost significant amount of freedom through heavy taxes and limited access. I feel sorry for the next generation. They will look at their parents and say “ what is wrong with you?!”
Evs are a dead issue. No farmer can farm with an E... (show quote)


EV’s are a joke for farming……

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Jan 15, 2024 13:37:26   #
Dikdik Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
 
Just wait... they are in their infancy...

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Jan 15, 2024 13:45:02   #
Ruthlessrider
 
Longshadow wrote:
Using Quote Reply works wonders for continuity.


In case you didn’t notice, I started this post and mistakenly posted part of it. I went back to try to delete it, but couldn’t get it to delete. I then reposted using the whole quote. Sorry if I confused you.

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Jan 15, 2024 13:48:24   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Ruthlessrider wrote:
In case you didn’t notice, I started this post and mistakenly posted part of it. I went back to try to delete it, but couldn’t get it to delete. I then reposted using the whole quote. Sorry if I confused you.


Just FYI: you can't delete a post. Only Admin can do that. However, within about one hour you can edit a post. You can replace what you wrote with a message telling us that you posted in error, or you can make up something else to say.

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Jan 15, 2024 13:50:23   #
John N Loc: HP14 3QF Stokenchurch, UK
 
Retina wrote:
The UK has spent billion of pounds and has set mandates to manufacturers.


Good points, but not exclusive to the U.K. I think most of (Western) Europe has similar schemes.
Politicians (here, especially) use these kinds of 'incentives' to appear to be doing some good without actually putting in any Government expenditure. It's been messed about with by one side of the house already, but they still aim to meet the final objectives, we'll just drop of a higher cliff as we get to that objective.

That objective being 'We have committed to phasing out the sales of new petrol and diesel cars and vans by 2030, and that all new cars and vans will be fully zero emissions at the tailpipe from 2035'.

I think it'll be havoc, our Government is falling short on targets to install chargers because the only policy they have is to ask someone else to do it for them, and private installation companies are not going to want to build infrastructure in less profitable locations.

With more of our electric coming from 'green' sources and hopefully new nuclear a cleaner atmosphere may be on the way - but with the amount of carbon fuels being burnt by Container and Cruise ships, amd to a lesser degree, aircraft, I cdon't think the improvement will be as much as they hope for.

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Jan 15, 2024 13:53:49   #
Ruthlessrider
 
APS wrote:
Evs are a dead issue. No farmer can farm with an EV. No trucker can deliver loads on time with an EV. The sooner the USA understands how stupid this whole idea is the better.
We are at risk of destroying our economy and radically reduce our lifestyles.
Anyone who thinks socialism is the answer is absolutely wrong. We have already lost significant amount of freedom through heavy taxes and limited access. I feel sorry for the next generation. They will look at their parents and say “ what is wrong with you?!”
Evs are a dead issue. No farmer can farm with an E... (show quote)


I hear BS like this all the time. Taxes are higher in most European countries and yet in every survey I an aware of( and I admittedly have not seen them all) Europeans rate their satisfaction with social, political, and economic well-being much higher than than we do. They rely much more heavily on trains than we do and EVs are selling well. Their only complaint is similar to us, not enough charging points, but they are catching up faster than we are on that point.

I was born in 1947 and for the life of me I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “we have already lost significant amount of freedom.” I don’t feel like I have lost any freedom at all, of course I am a white male. I might feel differently if I were a woman of child bearing age.

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Jan 15, 2024 14:06:08   #
Ruthlessrider
 
bikinkawboy wrote:
Hydro power is nice and “green” since water, a dam and gravity are all you need. It’s green compared to burning fossil fuels for energy production but the necessary dams can and have absolutely devastated local ecosystems. Salmon in NW states is a perfect example.

I’m sure all those Greenpeace activists would disagree about hydro being green. I guess whether or not hydro is green depends upon if you want to feel good about yourself when you charge your car or if you’re wanting to go salmon fishing. Just hope you don’t need to drive your EV to go salmon fishing.

Dikdik presented some cool charts about atmospheric carbon. Problem was they only went back 800,000 years. Yes that’s a long time for us but coal formation was 250 million years ago. Even without ice cores to examine it’s a known fact carbon dioxide levels were far higher then than any time since.

What is coal made from? The carbon portion of plants. (In Missouri you can separate layers of coal and still find individual grass leaves.). Where did the carbon in the plants come from? The atmosphere. Crude oil came from algae that pulled carbon from the atmosphere. So all the carbon in all the fossil fuels in all the world was once in the atmosphere. Even 100 million years after that Antarctica was green with plants and dinosaurs. Of course there won’t be any ice cores from that far back because there wasn’t any ice.

The beautiful thing about charts is that you don’t have to start at the beginning but you can start them at whatever point will make your case. Start that same chart at the year 2000 and it will show hardly any increase in atmospheric carbon has occurred. Yes that’s only 24 years but Dikdik’s charts were only 800,000 years. That’s only 1/312 of the time since the beginning of the Carboniferous period. In comparison that’s 1.2 days out of an entire year.

You don’t need to lie to prove your point, just provide the minimum facts needed to prove that you know what you’re talking about. Don’t tell the whole story, just enough of it to prove your point. (Not talking about Dikdik, rather researchers and scientists.)
Hydro power is nice and “green” since water, a dam... (show quote)


Since 2000, the global CO2 average has grown by 43.5 ppm, an increase of 12 percent. The atmospheric burden of CO2 is now comparable to where it was during the Mid-Pliocene Warm Period around 3.6 million years ago, when concentrations of carbon dioxide ranged from about 380 to 450 parts per million. In 1959 the average CO2, globally, was 317ppm, in 2022 it was 418.9ppm nearly the same at the Mid-Pliocene era. Source Statista, “ Average carbon dioxide (CO₂) levels in the atmosphere worldwide from 1959 to 2022”

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Jan 15, 2024 14:22:27   #
Ruthlessrider
 
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
Amen to that! Tell me what the goal is and let me figure out the best way to achieve it. Don't limit me to the governments idea of how it must be done"


Yes, I’m sure we are all capable of what you are describing, not. A long time ago we decided there was more economy of gain to be had by having a government hire experts in a field to analyze a problem and help us determine what would be the best the way for to solve that problem than for each of us to go our separate ways and muck things up more than they already are. What we didn’t count on was having a bunch of know nothing politicians sticking their noses in second guessing the experts.

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Jan 15, 2024 14:27:42   #
Ruthlessrider
 
rcarol wrote:
As of the moment, it appears that California really has no master plan other than to shut down petroleum and natural gas from being used by the consumer. The last nuclear plant in California was scheduled to be shut down but was given a reprieve because they have nothing to replace the loss in energy production that would result from shutting down this plant. California doesn't care about being right, they only care about being first. If you are thinking about moving to California, think twice. This state is not what it used to be. Admittedly, our weather is beautiful most of the year. The sun shines often and fortunately Governor Newsom hasn't figured a way to turn it off. However, he and his cronies are working diligently to find ways to charge consumers for using sun power. As an example, if you have a solar system and are connected to the grid, there is now a charge for doing so. The logic being that since you are generating your own electricity, you are depriving the electrical producers from profiting because you are selling energy back to the producers rather than buying energy from them. Sad!
As of the moment, it appears that California reall... (show quote)


Please don’t think for a moment that Democrats are the only ones doing this. In Wisconsin, our Republican legislature has put licensing fees for Hybrids and EV almost twice what ICV are paying. By all means, let’s not try to reward people who are trying to help solve a problem. It wasn’t bad enough that I had to pay taxes on the 32 solar panel array I put in to do the same thing.

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Jan 15, 2024 14:27:42   #
Dikdik Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
 
Ruthlessrider wrote:
Since 2000, the global CO2 average has grown by 43.5 ppm, an increase of 12 percent.


Your numbers are wrong! It has noting to do with Republicans or Democrats. CO2 increase is non political.

"Google the keeling curve. This is an ongoing measurement experiment. The data is peer reviewed, correlated across multiple sources, and extremely easy to interpret.

Average atmospheric CO2 in 1960: 315 ppm
Average atmospheric CO2 in 2020: 420 ppm

That's an increase of 105 ppm in 60 years, or a 33% increase from the 1960 number. Roughly 1.75 ppm, or roughly 0.5% per year.

Your 'truth' number is wrong."



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Jan 15, 2024 14:34:48   #
Ruthlessrider
 
“I own a 2000 Ford F-350 4x4 crewcab dually that is a turbo diesel. It has 125,000 miles on it. Mostly towing a 33 foot 5th wheel trailer through 10 western states. It still gets 22MPG and 17MPG towing.”

Hard to believe. What have you done to it? I have a 2008 Ford F-250 with a 6.4 L diesel with 125,000 miles on it pulling a 4 horse trailer that seldom gets more than 10mpg.

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